Feb. 16, 2026

Online Playground-Fun, Friends, Red Flags

Online Playground-Fun, Friends, Red Flags
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Season 1

Online games for kids can be safe, but safety depends a lot on which games they use and how closely adults supervise. How are “kids’ game” sites usually made safer? They have no open chat with strangers, don’t allow kids to share personal info (name, address, school, etc.) and use moderation and filters if they have comments or usernames. These kinds of sites are usually low risk for predators. Watch for Warning signs. What are the effects on children and psychological damage that can occur?

ASharpe Outlook is broadcast live Mondays at 8AM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). ASharpe Outlook TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).

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WEBVTT

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This program is designed to provide general information with regards

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to the subject matters covered. This information is given with

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the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station

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are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,

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legal counseling, professional service, or any advice.

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You should seek the services.

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Of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.

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Hello, and thank you for tuning in to a Sharp

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Outlook on pay for HD radio and talk or TV.

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I am Angela Sharp, your host. Our arm chair discussions

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with industry experts will give you the steps, tools and

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information to be successful in business and to prepare you

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to be your best self. Hello, I'm Angelas Sharp, and

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thank you so much for joining us today here on

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a Sharp Outlook. And I'm thankful that you are here

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to be able to join us for this program because

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it's going to be a very important topic for those

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that are have children, know of children, and care that

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children are safe these days. And so I was looking

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in I saw this thing called online online playgrounds, and

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there were games and they're fun and you meet friends,

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but there's also some red flags that we need to

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be aware of.

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And online games.

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For kids They could be safe, but safety depends a

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lot on which games they use and how closely adults

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supervise those games. Online games for kids can be safe,

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but safety depends on which games they use and how

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closely adults supervise them. How kids sites are usually made

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safer is because they have no open chat with strangers,

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don't allow kids to share personal information such as their name, address, school,

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and use moderation and filters if they have comments or

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use their names. They often have no public friend systems

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or private messaging, so these kids sites are usually pretty

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safe for them, and there's no chance of potential adults

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or others that don't have the right ideas about how

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to be in that space. Games with open chats such

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as text and voice, games with friend lists, private messages,

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or you know, clans or gilts or things like that.

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Platforms where kids and adults can mix. Those are ones

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where the multiplayer games are not just for kids sites.

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You have to watch out for the warning signs. Anyone

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asking for age, school, city photos or videos, or someone

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wanting the kids to have another using another app such

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as What's App, Discord, or Snapchat can be dangerous. There

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are requests to keep things secret. I think there's a

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problem when someone is asking your child to keep secrets

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from their parents. They're offering gifts. You know, they're giving

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game money or special status in exchange for pictures or favors.

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There should be an immediate stop and then the child

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tell an adult. And what is most disturbing is the

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corsion to meet and not tell anyone the influence they

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might have over your children. The dangers can be real,

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and what could the psychologically psychological effect be on their minds,

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their emotions, their attitudes when all of this is going on,

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a lot of things are happening while they're supposed to

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be in the playground space having fun. Well, today we

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have some experts to talk to us about these issues

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and the red flags and also the psychological effect that

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it might have on your children. And so I want

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you to dig in. I want you to be attentive.

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I want you to share this information so that we

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can keep our children SA Today I have doctor Catherine

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Nibs and Farida Shahid joining us to talk about this

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very issue. So I'd like to welcome you to the show.

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Thank you for having these.

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Do you want me do you want me to. There

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was a slight delay then, as is always the way

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we tech.

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Yes, I would like you to introduce yourselves, yeah, and

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give us some information as to why this topic is

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important to you.

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Oh okay, So, as you've introduced me, I am recently

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graduated Dr Catherine NIBBs. I am the CEO of a

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company called Children and Tech. I am a consultant child

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and adult trauma psychotherapist. So I've been working as a

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trauma psychotherapist for about sixteen years, mainly working with online

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harm and cyber trauma impacts. And I'll probably explain later

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what cyber trauma is.

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But I'm also a mom.

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I've raised children, and I have a background in and

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around technology from over thirty years, so I know the domain,

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I know the space, and the reason this topic is

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important to me is because for over fifteen years, I

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have been working with children who have been victims of

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what we call grooming sextortion. They have been cyber bullied,

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amongst some of the harms that actually occur, and what

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you've talked to their Angela really lovely is around the

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way we need to think about this space in terms

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of helping parents protect children.

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But also giving them tools to protect themselves.

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Yes, absolutely, it's kind of alarming that all of this

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is going on.

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Just been using the computer.

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Yeah, Karita, how is it that you are impacted?

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Were that you are involved in this topic? So my

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name is Freda Shahid. I have a background in cybersecurity

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awareness and threat intelligence. As my professional background, I'm an

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award winning Forbes thirty to thirty Internet safety expert. And

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then my personal background is that I grew up in

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the digital age and doctor kath needed to be my psychologist,

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to be honest, my psychotherapist genuinely, because I experienced the good,

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the bad, ugly, the beautiful of the online space. And

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I experienced grooming and predatory behavior and great online friends

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and terrible online friends while I was gaming online, while

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I was on social media, growing up as a kid

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in the digital age. And so that's the heart, or

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I would say that's the soul, The soul behind it

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is my personal story. In the heart is the professional story.

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Yeah, that's like I said, I know there are people

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like me that are just very surprise that these kinds

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of things are going on in social media. You know,

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I use it for business on a regular basis. So

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you know, I'm not going to be in a space

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where these kinds of things are happening. But when I'm

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thinking about online games for children, first off, why are

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the games so appealing?

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You've got a thirty billion dollar industry to thank for that, there, Angela.

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And by twenty thirty, the gaming industry is suggested to

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be worth thirty billion pounds. So you know, if we

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just put that figure there, the gaming industry has been around.

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For a long, long, long long time.

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This goes way back to those arcade games and we

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were on air, you were talking about your children used

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to go down to the arcade games. Games are an

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inherent part of the human psyche, and what we've been

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able to do with technology is create environments and spaces

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where you can engage in those fun activities in the

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form of something that might gain you mastery success, fun play,

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cognitive awareness, education, and almost every type of learning that

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we engage in from the age of about zero through

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to ninety nine is enhanced and encouraged, and we do

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much better at learning through play. And if you think

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about gaming, that's what gaming mostly is.

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Well, now that you put the dollars then on it, Yeah,

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why there is a major issue when organizations companies are

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making that kind of money, they're going to continue to

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do whatever they can to even increase that amount of

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money that's coming in, and they're going to protect their product,

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but they have to be aware of the dangers also.

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You know what's being done about that? For I mean,

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do the companies like Okay, I'm just gonna ask you,

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do you not care or what's going on that? You know,

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some of our children are being harm like Farita said,

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and they haven't put protocols in to prevent that from happening.

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You know what's going on there?

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Wow?

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Will doctor cath take that?

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Well?

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Actually, I'm going to say one of the one of

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the things about my approach Angeler is I am in England.

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We call it a middle lane hog driver. Okay.

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I like to look at the positives and the negatives

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of everything, and my background is working in and around

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gaming industry services. So you know, one of the things

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I didn't say earlier, by the way, is that I've

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written seven books, but what I spend most of my

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time doing is talking to parents two professionals.

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Certainly I will talk about this online.

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The thing about the gaming space is when it was invented,

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we didn't have the online interactions that we do now

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in let's say twenty twenty six. However, when the games

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went live and became something where people from around the

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world could interact with each other, we had and this

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is going back early well, I say, late nineties, early

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two thousands, we actually did have rules and those rules

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were often known as conectiquette and social norms, and many

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people knew how to engage in a gaming environment with

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other players respectfully, or if they didn't, then you know,

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pretty much like somebody who was misbehaving in a meeting

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at work, you might be asked to leave. Then came

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the introduction of home computers, home consoles, handheld items, and

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what that meant was the prevalence of children appearing in

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those spaces has increased beyond the ability of the systems

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to be able to put the protective measures in place.

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We should have done this at the outset, and we didn't,

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and we are now trying to backtrack. We're trying to

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put fences around dangerous areas in the city park, so

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to speak. We're trying to fence off the ponds and

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the dangerous equipment and children being children are circumventing those

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gates and fences and age assurances and lots and lots

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of other things that are being put into place. And sadly,

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because children arrived in these areas, it meant it was

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much much easier for adults to also be in those

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child based areas as well without being detected in the

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way that you would in a real city park for example.

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Wow, well then you know, I mean, how do predators,

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you know, typically approach children in those spaces? I mean,

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what does that look or sound like?

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Franshaw?

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There are academic models to show what we call the

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groom the grooming process over certainly over the last twenty

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eight years, they have changed. I mean, Farida is absolutely

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spot on. Friendship forms one of the biggest allies to

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being able to groom a child.

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But where many many years ago, the.

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Perpetrator would have to create a relationship in order to

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groom a child, we live in a society now where

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I think I'm going to use a metaphor that's going

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to feel a little bit. There are so many fish

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that a fisherman can cast many lines at once, and

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it doesn't really matter which fish bites and takes the hook.

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Yeah, and that's quite a visual and sorry, it's a

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kind of a gagging visual when you're thinking about, you know,

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predators out there in a child's space, and it's like

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it doesn't matter the child, it doesn't matter how many.

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If I don't catch one, I'll catch another. Okay, Okay,

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So they're approaching them in these games and things like that.

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What are some of the warning signs that a conversation,

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you know, has gone awry, it's not safe anymore. What

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are some of the things.

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I'll let for Rea to speak from her personal experience,

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because I think there's something that we learned from certainly

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people who have gone through this, and then I can

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kind of just come in with a slight academic lens if.

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You like, yes, absolutely free, it'll please.

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Honestly, I mean I first went to the parents' perspective

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in terms of the red flags. I always say your

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gut feeling that something's wrong, like, always believe your gut

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feeling as a parent. And if your gut feeling is

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saying something's wrong, then most likely something is. And sometimes

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it's anxiety or whatever, but anxiety is telling you something,

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so you have to pay attention to it. Either one

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way or another. But I would say from the child

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perspective or seeing the child as them pulling away from

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the things that they typically enjoy in their offline life

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and not wanting to engage in that, or not able

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to find a sense of connection offline where their only

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connection is online, and it's like in a way that

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feels not natural to how they usually are. They're very

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there might be like emotional about something that's going on

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online and they don't want to open up about it

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and they don't want to talk to you. That's that's one.

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Two is that sometimes it just looks like in the beginning.

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It depends on how deep the grooming is. Sometimes it

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just looks like they formed a romantic connection online and

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they have not yet felt fully the red flags of it,

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because your brain is still developing, so you don't understand

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what you're seeing. And especially if you come from a

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home where there are certain red flags, and we all

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have that in one way or another. It's different severities

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that red flags aren't really red flags, they're like yellow flags,

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maybe pink flags. You know, you're observing your behavior of

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your parents, and it's normal for somebody to be upset

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with you about something that may have nothing to do

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with you. So if the person you're talking to online

247
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is doing that, then why would you think that's a

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red flag? If you're no, it's never respected in the household,

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why would you care about Why would it be such

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a big deal that someone that you're supposed to be

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in a relationship or friendship with is not, you know,

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understanding your no. So I believe it's very nuanced. I

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would love to see here doctor cath Is perspective on this,

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but I would say it's just the gut feeling them

255
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not enjoying the things that usually enjoy to a degree

256
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that makes you feel as though something's happening, them hiding

257
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their interactions where like you come into the room and

258
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they're like they close out a screen, they stop the

259
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message like an irritation there that you're you're present. It

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doesn't always mean it's grooming. It just might mean that

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they feel there's a part of their online life that

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they can't share with you, and that does open the

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door to grooming and things happening without you knowing. So

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it's just important to lean into that versus ignoring it

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or leading in with great curiosity versus blame.

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I would say, so if a parent, you know, like

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you said, the child is closing their screen. You know,

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if they were just casually asking, hey, did you meet

269
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a new friend? Tell me about your new friend? Would

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that be invasive with the child? Considerate invasive that you

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you're asking questions.

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Because I mean, I know me as a mother, I

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won't be like, so, who's your new friend? Tell me

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all about it? What have you guys been talking about?

275
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I want to know. I just want to know.

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I think it depends all They're also probably scanning your

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past interactions and reactions to them when they told you things,

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and they're determining from that whether or not they want

279
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to open up to you. Because the first thing is okay,

280
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if I say this, she's all happy now. But the

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moment I say, oh I met this, the conversation of

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don't talk to strangers, Why are you talking to them?

283
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How are you connecting with your friends? Why are you

284
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spending so much time online? So I think they're scanning

285
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their past reactions to decide whether or not they're going

286
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to say anything.

287
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So they begin to become very secretive. But they're not understanding.

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The children aren't understanding the potential dangers that are there.

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They might, but they're I mean, they're curious, curious. It

290
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depends on what stage they are and their development and

291
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their feels and all of that. But I believe a

292
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lot of kids, I mean, one, they don't know it's

293
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dangerous too. They might know it's dangerous, but you're maybe

294
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a preteen or a teen and you want to do

295
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things outside of the box. You want to or I

296
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mean a lot of things are inherently dangerous that we

297
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have normalized, which is like things that are very normal

298
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to humans, like relationships, friendships that is inherently dangerous when

299
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you don't know who that person is. But we all

300
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take chances. And so the online world, more people that

301
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ever are meeting their spouses, their friends, their their careers,

302
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their businesses in online space. So why wouldn't a twelve

303
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year old think that they could meet their best friend

304
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on roadblocks?

305
00:19:36.359 --> 00:19:40.319
Well you got a point there, because you know, you

306
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hear about them being online and children being bullied, you

307
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know to the point where they they're taking some pretty

308
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drastic actions, you know, harming themselves and things like that.

309
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Just because someone says something online, is it is there

310
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an emotion all part that is really driving this or

311
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is it something else?

312
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Yeah?

313
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I care YEP, I'm going to come in onto two

314
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aspects of what you're asking about here, Angela Wright. So,

315
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I love the fact, for Eida that you've named the

316
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other colors of the red flags.

317
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I would certainly say we have.

318
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We have an attitude in the world of kind of

319
00:20:27.200 --> 00:20:30.160
trying to understand why things happened and what we should

320
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have noticed along the way. And I'm going to give

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you an example that a lot of adults, when they've

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been in a particularly distasteful work relationship or rom antic relationship,

323
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they will often, certainly in my clinic, they will often

324
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go back and say, where was the flag that I

325
00:20:46.759 --> 00:20:50.319
should have noticed? This person wasn't who they said they were,

326
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or I had expectations that they were this person who

327
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didn't do these things. Now, right now, this is happening

328
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across the world because there's information and being shared online

329
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about the Epstein files, and that's really.

330
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Where people are at the moment.

331
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Oh, we should have known, we should have recognized there

332
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were red flags. Well, when it comes to children and

333
00:21:12.759 --> 00:21:15.599
their behaviors online, I'm going to give you a little

334
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bit of an academic explanation and try and keep it simple.

335
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There's a theory that came out in two thousand and

336
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four that says, because we can't see people, because we

337
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can't see how they're reacting, we can make choices online,

338
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and that's known as the disinhibition effect. Actually, I'm going

339
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to take you back to something a lot more biological,

340
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inherent and wired, and that is our ability to gauge

341
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whether somebody is safe or unsafe, whether we can trust

342
00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:47.720
them or not. Now, because we are all talking on

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the screen at this point in time, we're going to

344
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have to gauge whether we're trustworthy or not based on

345
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facial cues, what we're talking, like the cadence of our speech,

346
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what we know about each other, and if we think

347
00:22:02.079 --> 00:22:05.039
about what we've done. Realistically, all three of us have

348
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met online having known nothing about each other, and we

349
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all opened our videos up and we all began talking.

350
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So we do it as the adults, and then we

351
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expect children to override got intuition, override things that we've

352
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told them because they see us modeling completely different behavior.

353
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So children are in a world at this point in

354
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time where they're really confused. We say to them, if

355
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something gives you, and I use the phrase otoh. If

356
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you get a feeling of otoh, come and tell me.

357
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And what I generally help parents do is what I

358
00:22:41.559 --> 00:22:45.680
call check in, not check on. So I'm going to

359
00:22:45.880 --> 00:22:48.480
change the language that you used earlier, Angela, not because

360
00:22:48.480 --> 00:22:51.480
it's a critique of you, but because if we think

361
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about in the United Kingdom at the moment, we've got

362
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a drive to start asking children. If you ask children something,

363
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they quite quickly close down based on exactly what Feeda

364
00:23:03.279 --> 00:23:08.200
was saying, because children will say, hmm, my shame detector says,

365
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if I'd say this, or if I tell my parents,

366
00:23:11.160 --> 00:23:15.000
my care as, my teacher, whoever, about this particular thing,

367
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they might laugh, they might ridicule me, they might tell

368
00:23:19.000 --> 00:23:21.599
me it's nonsense, they might stop me from doing it.

369
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So I'm going to think in the best way that

370
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I can to give them an answer that satisfies them.

371
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That means I can also carry on with the behavior.

372
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And the thing about people who groom children, they know

373
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how to work around, let's put it in air quotes,

374
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those red flags. So sometimes children don't pick up that

375
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they are having conversations with somebody that are inappropriate out

376
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of their age, development stage, et cetera, et cetera. And

377
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so what I get parents to do is to talk

378
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to their children and generally make the talk not about

379
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the Internet and the online space, but about friendships and

380
00:24:02.519 --> 00:24:07.000
relationships and people you know and people you trust. Because

381
00:24:07.039 --> 00:24:10.960
what comes out time after time after time with the

382
00:24:11.039 --> 00:24:13.000
children and the parents that I work with is when

383
00:24:13.079 --> 00:24:15.160
you don't make it about the Internet, and you make

384
00:24:15.200 --> 00:24:20.720
it about the the process, so not the content the

385
00:24:20.759 --> 00:24:24.039
process that's taking place. What you'll find is children talk

386
00:24:24.039 --> 00:24:26.160
to you about, oh, yeah, I could recognize somebody online

387
00:24:26.200 --> 00:24:30.920
that was a fib a scammer, a hacker, and I

388
00:24:30.920 --> 00:24:33.759
will say, how do you do that then? And what

389
00:24:34.119 --> 00:24:37.480
generally comes out is children say, well, they'll have a

390
00:24:37.519 --> 00:24:40.559
gamer tag that's different, or they might say this to me,

391
00:24:40.920 --> 00:24:42.480
or they might say that to me, and I say, oh,

392
00:24:42.559 --> 00:24:43.680
that's really interesting.

393
00:24:44.039 --> 00:24:44.319
Do you know?

394
00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:48.200
We might call those red flags, and then you can

395
00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:54.640
have a conversation about trust, mistrust, genuine authentic people online

396
00:24:54.720 --> 00:24:57.680
because you know, some of the people that these children

397
00:24:57.680 --> 00:25:00.839
are talking to are not a risk, not a threat.

398
00:25:01.720 --> 00:25:05.000
And what we're doing at the moment is because sadly

399
00:25:05.079 --> 00:25:08.839
there is again I'm not going to go into naming

400
00:25:08.839 --> 00:25:11.680
and shaming. But there is something taking place at the

401
00:25:11.680 --> 00:25:15.200
moment that's making parents feel very, very very frightened about

402
00:25:15.240 --> 00:25:19.160
the internet because there is a movement taking place that

403
00:25:19.319 --> 00:25:22.119
tells you it is a very very very very very

404
00:25:22.240 --> 00:25:27.599
very scary environment. And parents are now finding themselves reacting

405
00:25:27.640 --> 00:25:31.000
to the red flags of the narrative that's taking place

406
00:25:31.039 --> 00:25:34.480
at the moment. So how can we educate our children

407
00:25:34.519 --> 00:25:38.039
about what's safe and not safe when we're being told

408
00:25:38.119 --> 00:25:39.559
everything is unsafe?

409
00:25:40.079 --> 00:25:40.200
Right?

410
00:25:40.519 --> 00:25:43.440
And that makes kids more unsafe because they don't trust

411
00:25:43.519 --> 00:25:45.720
that the conversation they are going to have is going

412
00:25:45.720 --> 00:25:48.519
to be nangen for nn judgmental. If all the news

413
00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:51.839
that you're getting is bad news and there's no understanding

414
00:25:51.839 --> 00:25:55.799
of just the Internet is a reflection of life and people.

415
00:25:56.079 --> 00:25:59.319
There's good, bad, ugly, and beautiful. There's a spectrum of it.

416
00:25:59.640 --> 00:26:03.119
Then you're going into the conversation with your kid thinking, Okay,

417
00:26:03.319 --> 00:26:06.440
I'm protecting my child from the biggest, baddest online groomer,

418
00:26:06.680 --> 00:26:08.599
and your kid is like, Wow, I just met my

419
00:26:09.039 --> 00:26:11.039
favorite friend in the world. And it might be actually

420
00:26:11.079 --> 00:26:13.200
another kid on the other end of the screen, but

421
00:26:13.480 --> 00:26:16.400
maybe their fifth friend online in their friend's list is

422
00:26:16.440 --> 00:26:18.720
a groomer and they haven't talked to them yet, or

423
00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:22.039
they're beginning to talk to them. If for let's say

424
00:26:22.039 --> 00:26:24.279
they have ten friends and nine of them are totally

425
00:26:24.319 --> 00:26:26.400
fine and maybe one is questionable and one is definitely

426
00:26:26.400 --> 00:26:28.960
the groomer. It's really hard to get to the groomer

427
00:26:29.119 --> 00:26:31.160
when your kid is thinking about the nine other people

428
00:26:31.279 --> 00:26:33.640
or the other people, and they're going to shut down

429
00:26:33.680 --> 00:26:35.799
if you keep talking about the groomer. Because I know

430
00:26:36.680 --> 00:26:38.519
in my head as a kid, which is what shut

431
00:26:38.559 --> 00:26:41.160
me down for all conversations, is that when adults came

432
00:26:41.200 --> 00:26:43.720
to me to tell me about red flags of groomers,

433
00:26:43.759 --> 00:26:45.559
or don't talk to strangers, or this person is a

434
00:26:45.599 --> 00:26:48.000
bad person, is a bad they didn't say bad actor

435
00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:49.799
and cybersecurity is a bad actor, but they would say

436
00:26:49.799 --> 00:26:52.759
this is a bad person. I would think, Wow, am

437
00:26:52.839 --> 00:26:55.799
I a bad person for liking to talk to this person?

438
00:26:56.200 --> 00:26:58.480
Like that's my immediate thought as a kid. It was like,

439
00:26:58.519 --> 00:27:01.640
if this person is bad but I enjoy talking to them,

440
00:27:01.759 --> 00:27:03.400
does that mean that I'm bad? And if you have

441
00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:06.359
this much hatred for this bad person but I like

442
00:27:06.440 --> 00:27:08.279
talking to them, would you hate me if you knew

443
00:27:08.279 --> 00:27:10.480
how much I like talking to them. That's like in

444
00:27:10.519 --> 00:27:13.640
my head as a kid. So I have such a

445
00:27:13.640 --> 00:27:16.880
big issue with these conversations is because it really feeds

446
00:27:16.960 --> 00:27:19.720
into the grooming process, because the groomers on the back end,

447
00:27:19.720 --> 00:27:22.400
and I would love doctor Kath to weigh in on this,

448
00:27:22.839 --> 00:27:25.880
they go, oh, Okay, we see how much your parents

449
00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:28.640
hate these people. You know, you're one of those people.

450
00:27:28.720 --> 00:27:30.839
You know you like talking to me. You know this,

451
00:27:31.039 --> 00:27:32.839
so you know you have to take You can't tell

452
00:27:32.839 --> 00:27:34.839
your parents about this because they're gonna they're going to

453
00:27:34.920 --> 00:27:36.799
react to you the same way they're reacting to these

454
00:27:36.839 --> 00:27:38.960
other people. And they're not going to love you, and

455
00:27:39.000 --> 00:27:40.559
they're not going to be your parents, and you're not

456
00:27:40.559 --> 00:27:42.319
going to be able to play this game anymore. They're

457
00:27:42.319 --> 00:27:43.920
going to take it away from you. You're not going

458
00:27:44.000 --> 00:27:45.480
to go to the school that you want, You're not

459
00:27:45.480 --> 00:27:46.920
gonna have the friends that you want, the life that

460
00:27:46.960 --> 00:27:48.680
you want. They don't want that for you. You want to

461
00:27:48.680 --> 00:27:50.559
become this, and they want you to be that. And

462
00:27:50.680 --> 00:27:52.799
I accept you fully as you are and I don't

463
00:27:52.799 --> 00:27:54.279
want to push you and to do anything you don't

464
00:27:54.319 --> 00:27:56.119
want to do. And so I'm just so happy we're

465
00:27:56.160 --> 00:27:58.319
able to have these conversations. That's what groomers do, and

466
00:27:58.359 --> 00:28:01.440
they're much more effective now because of all these crazy

467
00:28:01.440 --> 00:28:02.440
conversations we're having.

468
00:28:03.359 --> 00:28:06.200
Well, this is very informative.

469
00:28:07.240 --> 00:28:11.400
You know. I remember when I when I had my children,

470
00:28:11.960 --> 00:28:14.240
I came you know, grew up during a time where

471
00:28:15.119 --> 00:28:19.160
you know, your parents were good parents and you had conversations,

472
00:28:19.160 --> 00:28:21.480
but there were certain things topics that we never could

473
00:28:21.519 --> 00:28:23.839
talk about. They were secrets that only adults could have,

474
00:28:24.240 --> 00:28:27.400
and so we just never learned anything. And because of that,

475
00:28:27.440 --> 00:28:31.920
mistakes were mede But I made sure, or I said,

476
00:28:31.960 --> 00:28:35.680
within my heart, I'm going to always have open conversations

477
00:28:35.680 --> 00:28:38.200
and I'm not going to be judgmental and I'm not

478
00:28:38.400 --> 00:28:41.839
going to you know, be negative about what they say.

479
00:28:41.920 --> 00:28:45.920
I'm just going to listen and watch. And so I

480
00:28:46.039 --> 00:28:50.880
tried to, you know, do that during their time as

481
00:28:50.960 --> 00:28:53.880
growing up, so that you know, they could just talk

482
00:28:53.880 --> 00:28:55.000
about anything.

483
00:28:55.119 --> 00:28:57.799
Some of them, some of the things were disturbing to me.

484
00:28:57.960 --> 00:29:00.519
But I was thinking, like you, Frida, I was thinking,

485
00:29:00.599 --> 00:29:04.039
if I say something, they're going to shut down and

486
00:29:04.119 --> 00:29:05.640
I'm not going to be able to talk.

487
00:29:05.519 --> 00:29:06.519
To them anymore.

488
00:29:07.039 --> 00:29:11.319
And so I was very cautious and careful that you know,

489
00:29:11.480 --> 00:29:15.200
I didn't bring any finger pointing or any of that stuff,

490
00:29:15.240 --> 00:29:18.400
and I tried to, you know, protect you know, what

491
00:29:18.480 --> 00:29:22.480
they saw in conversations. But conversations back then, we're talking

492
00:29:22.480 --> 00:29:26.200
about over fifty years ago, are not the same conversations

493
00:29:26.279 --> 00:29:30.119
we are having now, you know, just because of the

494
00:29:30.839 --> 00:29:36.880
you know, the revolution of the internet and you know,

495
00:29:37.119 --> 00:29:41.640
technology and different things like that. Yeah, has its good parts,

496
00:29:41.720 --> 00:29:42.480
it really does.

497
00:29:42.680 --> 00:29:42.880
Yeah.

498
00:29:42.960 --> 00:29:46.440
The biggest issue, the biggest issue, Angela, is parents haven't

499
00:29:46.440 --> 00:29:50.279
been equipped right, and that's been the big failing Now.

500
00:29:50.559 --> 00:29:54.079
I do tend to talk in metaphors and stories because

501
00:29:54.519 --> 00:29:57.759
it's generally an easier way for parents to understand this.

502
00:29:58.599 --> 00:30:01.559
But when you go into a shopping mall, I'm aware

503
00:30:01.599 --> 00:30:03.079
that you're in the US, so I'm going to use

504
00:30:03.119 --> 00:30:05.559
your terminology. When you go into a shopping mall, When

505
00:30:05.599 --> 00:30:07.880
you go into a city park, when you take your

506
00:30:08.000 --> 00:30:12.400
children to sports clubs, you do a risk assess. You

507
00:30:12.480 --> 00:30:15.640
kind of do a risk assessment as a parent. You say, okay,

508
00:30:15.720 --> 00:30:19.000
who's looking after my child? Who's here, what kind of

509
00:30:19.119 --> 00:30:22.359
dangers are there? And what we didn't do is we

510
00:30:22.359 --> 00:30:25.319
didn't equip parents with the knowledge about this digital city

511
00:30:25.359 --> 00:30:28.440
park and the digital shopping malls, which is how I

512
00:30:28.480 --> 00:30:32.319
talk about online games. And what we said is, well,

513
00:30:32.720 --> 00:30:36.279
we'll talk about hours, hours of time that children can

514
00:30:36.319 --> 00:30:42.720
spend there. And because sadly this is where parents were misled, misinformed,

515
00:30:42.799 --> 00:30:47.839
and it's not because these organizations were misrepresenting the knowledge,

516
00:30:47.880 --> 00:30:51.279
they just didn't know. So we had the American Psychological

517
00:30:51.279 --> 00:30:56.519
Associations suggest that an hour of screen time for children

518
00:30:56.839 --> 00:31:00.359
was appropriate and for this age, it was this amount

519
00:31:00.359 --> 00:31:03.799
of time, and we all became focused on the metric

520
00:31:04.000 --> 00:31:09.160
of the screen, the device that the thing okay, And

521
00:31:09.200 --> 00:31:11.960
what I'm suggesting is the failure came when we didn't

522
00:31:11.960 --> 00:31:15.160
talk about the medium. We didn't talk about this portal

523
00:31:15.720 --> 00:31:20.000
to other people. And actually that's the risk assessment that

524
00:31:20.039 --> 00:31:23.559
we didn't know how to do. We didn't get educated

525
00:31:23.599 --> 00:31:26.599
on it. And right now, yet again we've become focused

526
00:31:26.599 --> 00:31:31.400
on the time and the metrics that are unhelpful for parents.

527
00:31:32.039 --> 00:31:34.000
Like I said in the UK, we've got the campaign

528
00:31:34.200 --> 00:31:36.759
just ask, and I keep saying to people, ask, what

529
00:31:37.599 --> 00:31:39.799
if you don't give the parents the tools to be

530
00:31:39.839 --> 00:31:43.000
able to have a conversation, they can't have a conversation.

531
00:31:43.559 --> 00:31:47.039
And if you don't give them.

532
00:31:45.920 --> 00:31:48.720
Both sides of the coin, and you don't explain what

533
00:31:49.000 --> 00:31:54.079
these dangers are, then you can't explain what the benefits are.

534
00:31:54.160 --> 00:31:56.400
And what we're doing at the moment is we've focused

535
00:31:56.480 --> 00:32:03.200
on only the dangers. Comes something that people are extremely

536
00:32:03.480 --> 00:32:05.799
and I'm going to use the word terrified here, extremely

537
00:32:05.880 --> 00:32:09.160
terrified of because what we keep doing is focusing on

538
00:32:09.200 --> 00:32:11.160
the metric of when things have gone wrong, and we

539
00:32:11.240 --> 00:32:13.240
do that by the mainstream media news.

540
00:32:13.880 --> 00:32:14.839
And I'm just going to give you.

541
00:32:14.880 --> 00:32:17.839
A figure of I think it goes all the way

542
00:32:17.880 --> 00:32:20.480
back to when I first started doing around so this

543
00:32:20.519 --> 00:32:24.799
will be around twenty twelve, it was around four percent

544
00:32:25.039 --> 00:32:29.480
of children were going to meet their online perpetrator. It

545
00:32:29.640 --> 00:32:32.799
is quite a small amount. If I give you the

546
00:32:32.839 --> 00:32:38.920
figures of ADHD and autism representations in the general population,

547
00:32:39.160 --> 00:32:42.680
it's around four to five percent. But if you look

548
00:32:42.680 --> 00:32:46.759
on social media, you would think, in air quotes, everybody

549
00:32:47.400 --> 00:32:52.440
has and everybody is and everyone and every type of

550
00:32:52.480 --> 00:32:57.720
social media is dangerous. And I'm seeing grandiosity at a

551
00:32:57.880 --> 00:33:02.519
level that isn't helpful. It isn't supporting parents, It doesn't

552
00:33:02.519 --> 00:33:05.000
give them the guidelines. And what we're trying to do

553
00:33:05.079 --> 00:33:10.119
is effectively knock down the shopping centers and stop children

554
00:33:10.160 --> 00:33:12.839
going into the city parks. And we say, now we've

555
00:33:12.839 --> 00:33:17.759
got it sorted now. But there's roads, there's other environments

556
00:33:17.759 --> 00:33:22.279
that children can go to, there's standalone shops, there's forests,

557
00:33:22.680 --> 00:33:26.720
there's swamps that we haven't considered all of that. And

558
00:33:26.880 --> 00:33:30.759
the thing that we cannot do is keep barricading all

559
00:33:30.799 --> 00:33:32.680
of these environments.

560
00:33:33.039 --> 00:33:36.240
Yeah, yeah, you have to. You have to open up

561
00:33:36.279 --> 00:33:39.279
and help them have understanding. We have to trust our

562
00:33:39.359 --> 00:33:45.359
children that they're able to understand the conversation and then

563
00:33:45.480 --> 00:33:49.359
they will make choices. But at least if we explain

564
00:33:49.480 --> 00:33:53.519
that to them, will that help? I mean, just not this,

565
00:33:54.440 --> 00:33:57.960
you know, one in a point fingers one of the judgment.

566
00:33:58.160 --> 00:34:00.680
You know, all of the nast the words that you

567
00:34:01.279 --> 00:34:03.240
can say, and this, that and the other about it,

568
00:34:03.599 --> 00:34:08.800
but just say there are circumstances where there could be

569
00:34:09.400 --> 00:34:12.519
someone not all of your friends, but maybe just one

570
00:34:12.599 --> 00:34:18.519
person might join your group that doesn't really fit the

571
00:34:18.639 --> 00:34:22.800
kind of friends that you like, and so can we

572
00:34:22.840 --> 00:34:25.760
talk about what that friend might do or what they're

573
00:34:25.800 --> 00:34:27.719
kind of going to be like and things like that.

574
00:34:28.119 --> 00:34:32.119
Not saying that I trust your judgment, I trust you

575
00:34:32.159 --> 00:34:36.119
know you're expectives, coctive judgment.

576
00:34:36.280 --> 00:34:38.360
If you actually listen to children when they're in a

577
00:34:38.400 --> 00:34:41.960
friendship group, the friends generally work out I mean this

578
00:34:42.039 --> 00:34:44.880
is this is group dynamics, so it's best generally the

579
00:34:44.960 --> 00:34:47.320
children will work out who the leader is, who the

580
00:34:47.360 --> 00:34:49.559
person is. What we call lais a fair and doesn't

581
00:34:49.559 --> 00:34:52.920
actually pull their weight. And most of the children have

582
00:34:53.000 --> 00:34:56.840
an opinion on other children because they're converse in between themselves.

583
00:34:57.320 --> 00:34:59.639
What we're doing at the moment is we're making children

584
00:34:59.679 --> 00:35:04.159
really and that's going to prevent the conversation. So my

585
00:35:04.360 --> 00:35:10.159
E safety online safety advice is always conversations, conversations, conversations.

586
00:35:10.280 --> 00:35:13.239
It's not put the parental controls on here, stop them

587
00:35:13.280 --> 00:35:16.599
doing this, stop them doing that. It's you have conversations.

588
00:35:17.000 --> 00:35:21.679
They have conversations, and their friends have conversations. And in

589
00:35:22.280 --> 00:35:27.400
a gaming environment, people very quickly settle into social norms.

590
00:35:27.719 --> 00:35:29.320
And I'm just going to tell you I'm not going

591
00:35:29.400 --> 00:35:32.360
to do the swear version, but children in my office

592
00:35:32.639 --> 00:35:36.239
are very quick in many cases to say, that's what

593
00:35:36.280 --> 00:35:38.440
we call a randomer, a person you don't know, and

594
00:35:38.480 --> 00:35:41.039
they will just close the conversation down, block them, mute them,

595
00:35:41.159 --> 00:35:45.519
report them, not engaged. With them. The children who are

596
00:35:45.599 --> 00:35:48.840
vulnerable are children who are not getting their needs met

597
00:35:48.880 --> 00:35:52.079
by those conversations and connections in the real world, and

598
00:35:52.239 --> 00:35:55.400
that is the failure of the last thirty to thirty

599
00:35:55.440 --> 00:36:00.480
five years. Is sadly, we've moved into a time where,

600
00:36:01.480 --> 00:36:03.800
you know, the cost of living across the world has

601
00:36:03.840 --> 00:36:07.440
gone up. Parents are stressed. There's been all sorts of

602
00:36:07.559 --> 00:36:11.679
money issues. We've got political divide, we've got less community

603
00:36:12.239 --> 00:36:15.800
or less community tasks taking place, and we've got more

604
00:36:16.159 --> 00:36:21.559
insular spaces, reducing and removing those conversations, the conversations that

605
00:36:21.679 --> 00:36:23.760
used to keep us safe in the real world.

606
00:36:24.360 --> 00:36:26.000
Never mind about online.

607
00:36:26.239 --> 00:36:28.960
Because it translates, I mean in your offline life and

608
00:36:28.960 --> 00:36:31.880
your online life. It's like there's a through line with it.

609
00:36:32.199 --> 00:36:34.679
And so I believe if parents were to open up

610
00:36:34.719 --> 00:36:37.480
to their kids and we taught and we had these

611
00:36:37.480 --> 00:36:40.000
discussions on a wider scale instead of telling parents think

612
00:36:40.039 --> 00:36:41.960
about screen time. I remember when I first heard that

613
00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:44.639
as a kid, I was like, Okay, that's not gonna

614
00:36:45.119 --> 00:36:47.360
like it. When it comes to grooming and it comes

615
00:36:47.360 --> 00:36:49.760
to protecting kids for predators, I mean, a predator of

616
00:36:49.760 --> 00:36:52.559
behavior can happen within thirty minutes it doesn't need, it

617
00:36:52.559 --> 00:36:54.760
doesn't need you know, two hours, three hours, four hours.

618
00:36:54.760 --> 00:36:57.880
I understand we're talking about their development, but when it

619
00:36:57.880 --> 00:37:00.320
comes to the grooming side and the predator side and

620
00:37:00.320 --> 00:37:03.119
protect them online, it's less. It's more about the media.

621
00:37:04.079 --> 00:37:07.280
But yeah, if parents were to open up more, be

622
00:37:07.360 --> 00:37:11.199
vulnerable about their own life experiences and let their guard

623
00:37:11.320 --> 00:37:14.119
down and let their mask off and conversations with kids

624
00:37:14.599 --> 00:37:17.880
or mostly like preteens and teens, the better I believe

625
00:37:17.880 --> 00:37:21.320
the conversations will go. I think sometimes the conversations feel

626
00:37:21.360 --> 00:37:25.719
accusatory because you feel as a kid that oh, you know,

627
00:37:25.719 --> 00:37:29.039
they're misperfect, they're mister perfect, and they're the adults and

628
00:37:29.079 --> 00:37:30.760
they think that I don't know anything, and so they're

629
00:37:30.800 --> 00:37:33.960
here to come down with their wise wisdom and so

630
00:37:34.159 --> 00:37:36.760
you know that's again and you're like, okay, please, I

631
00:37:36.840 --> 00:37:38.320
just want to go back to playing my game or

632
00:37:38.400 --> 00:37:40.239
I want to go back to big on social media.

633
00:37:40.320 --> 00:37:42.719
But when you open up some of the conversations without

634
00:37:42.760 --> 00:37:49.440
any without any agenda of them having to share as well,

635
00:37:49.559 --> 00:37:52.159
just sharing just for the sake of sharing, even if

636
00:37:52.199 --> 00:37:54.360
they roll their eyes, even if they're like okay, mom, whatever,

637
00:37:54.400 --> 00:37:57.760
who cares? Just saying that actually goes into their psyche,

638
00:37:57.760 --> 00:37:59.599
and they will remember it, even if they don't want

639
00:37:59.639 --> 00:38:02.119
admit it. They're going to remember that you said, oh,

640
00:38:02.159 --> 00:38:03.800
you know, I remember I had a boyfriend in high

641
00:38:03.800 --> 00:38:05.679
school that said this and did this. Or I remember

642
00:38:05.679 --> 00:38:08.079
someone said this to me. I had a girlfriend that

643
00:38:08.239 --> 00:38:09.840
was really mean to me. I remember someone made me

644
00:38:09.840 --> 00:38:12.039
feel n comfortable. I remember someone of my family that

645
00:38:12.079 --> 00:38:14.599
I didn't. And this is, of course, you want to

646
00:38:14.639 --> 00:38:17.880
talk from your not necessarily your wounds, but from your scars.

647
00:38:17.960 --> 00:38:21.599
We know that, like that analogy, but as much as possible,

648
00:38:21.599 --> 00:38:23.800
if you can be vulnerable. If I remember liking someone,

649
00:38:23.880 --> 00:38:25.840
and this is how I determine whether or not I

650
00:38:25.840 --> 00:38:27.360
want to be with them, or I made this mistake

651
00:38:27.559 --> 00:38:30.480
just being human and opening up and just making that

652
00:38:30.599 --> 00:38:34.079
normal part of conversation instead of expecting them to open

653
00:38:34.199 --> 00:38:35.519
up to you. And you haven't opened up to them,

654
00:38:35.519 --> 00:38:38.679
because what person one of us? Why would we want

655
00:38:38.719 --> 00:38:40.880
to open up to somebody unless they're our therapists that

656
00:38:40.960 --> 00:38:43.360
they haven't opened up to us. So you're not going

657
00:38:43.400 --> 00:38:46.400
to tell your parents your deepest and darkest secrets if

658
00:38:46.440 --> 00:38:48.360
you don't feel as though you're talking to a human.

659
00:38:49.679 --> 00:38:53.239
Yeah, And the thing is I hear what you're saying.

660
00:38:53.440 --> 00:39:01.039
As being a parent, I ran into a situation where everyone,

661
00:39:01.440 --> 00:39:06.519
you know, because you know, I've had a very successful career.

662
00:39:07.079 --> 00:39:10.159
I've done and accomplish a lot of things. I've had

663
00:39:10.199 --> 00:39:14.159
a bunch of material things, and I have have children

664
00:39:14.760 --> 00:39:19.679
that had the assumption that I was perfect. I had

665
00:39:19.679 --> 00:39:23.599
to let them know, no, I wasn't perfect. I've been

666
00:39:23.639 --> 00:39:28.480
through a journey. I felt kind of uncomfortable because there

667
00:39:28.480 --> 00:39:32.960
are two boys sharing that face to face. So I

668
00:39:32.960 --> 00:39:36.039
wrote a book and I sent them a copy of it.

669
00:39:36.679 --> 00:39:41.320
I said, I'm not all that. You need to understand

670
00:39:42.079 --> 00:39:45.639
my pitfalls. You need to know my mistakes, You need

671
00:39:45.679 --> 00:39:51.679
to know my issues and the traumas and the healing

672
00:39:51.760 --> 00:39:56.360
that I had to go through. And so things are

673
00:39:56.480 --> 00:40:00.519
so much better now, but I have grandchildren who think, oh,

674
00:40:00.559 --> 00:40:04.880
she's perfect, and I haven't been able to express you know,

675
00:40:06.400 --> 00:40:09.519
what I've been through, what I've gone through trusting the

676
00:40:09.599 --> 00:40:14.480
wrong people. You know, it might be cyber security now

677
00:40:15.480 --> 00:40:19.199
in the Internet, but these kind of dangers were still

678
00:40:19.199 --> 00:40:24.800
around even before social media came out. And I remember

679
00:40:24.840 --> 00:40:30.679
growing up as a child, we had neighbors. The neighbors

680
00:40:30.760 --> 00:40:36.760
were like watchdogs. They they knew the people other people

681
00:40:36.760 --> 00:40:39.639
in the neighborhood, and they would I mean you'd be

682
00:40:39.679 --> 00:40:42.840
walking back home and you would see them standing out

683
00:40:43.320 --> 00:40:46.119
on the sidewalk, you know, with their arms crossed or whatever.

684
00:40:46.440 --> 00:40:48.920
You know, I saw you were at so and so,

685
00:40:49.559 --> 00:40:52.039
and they were always they were kind of like helpers

686
00:40:53.239 --> 00:40:55.880
of my parents, you know, to rear us. And so

687
00:40:56.000 --> 00:41:00.400
we had very engaged neighbors that were always protecting. So

688
00:41:00.920 --> 00:41:04.360
we didn't feel policed. We kind of felt like, wow,

689
00:41:04.440 --> 00:41:07.480
I have all these guardian angels around. That's why I thought,

690
00:41:08.039 --> 00:41:12.880
you know, but I think opening up to our children

691
00:41:12.920 --> 00:41:18.199
and letting them know we're humans. We've made mistakes, We've

692
00:41:18.239 --> 00:41:23.039
even made some really mad decisions and so and these

693
00:41:23.039 --> 00:41:25.480
are what I this is what I learned from it.

694
00:41:26.320 --> 00:41:30.920
You know, let's talk about maybe some things that you

695
00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:32.960
would like to share with me. You know. It is

696
00:41:33.000 --> 00:41:36.679
a like you said, it's a two week conversation, you know.

697
00:41:38.039 --> 00:41:40.280
Yeah, and it doesn't always have to be about the

698
00:41:40.320 --> 00:41:42.559
online work. I'm going to give you some examples there.

699
00:41:42.960 --> 00:41:46.039
Angela and Farida, you are mother and welcome to take

700
00:41:46.079 --> 00:41:48.760
these and use these with parents. But some of the

701
00:41:48.760 --> 00:41:51.519
things that I use with parents are how do you

702
00:41:51.519 --> 00:41:53.320
know a fruit is a fruit, So I would I

703
00:41:53.320 --> 00:41:56.280
would say to my children in the supermarket, and we

704
00:41:56.360 --> 00:41:57.679
might be looking to us, But how do you know

705
00:41:57.719 --> 00:41:59.559
it's aid to our time? Well, because it says it's

706
00:41:59.559 --> 00:42:03.760
said to my Okay, what are the tests that you

707
00:42:03.920 --> 00:42:06.480
do in your head to know that that's a tomato?

708
00:42:07.000 --> 00:42:09.159
Because here's the thing about the online world. It might

709
00:42:09.199 --> 00:42:11.239
say it's a tomato, but really it's a banana.

710
00:42:12.119 --> 00:42:12.360
Okay.

711
00:42:13.079 --> 00:42:14.480
We live in a world.

712
00:42:14.159 --> 00:42:17.480
Where suter and especially now with AAR this is the

713
00:42:17.519 --> 00:42:19.800
way that you can really help children start to have

714
00:42:19.880 --> 00:42:24.000
critical thinking. Do I trust that just because it says

715
00:42:24.039 --> 00:42:25.599
that I'd have to go and compare it to all

716
00:42:25.599 --> 00:42:27.960
the tomatoes. I'd have to look at you know what

717
00:42:28.159 --> 00:42:31.800
kind of peppers are on the shelves? And you talk

718
00:42:31.840 --> 00:42:34.360
to children about we can only know something what it

719
00:42:34.519 --> 00:42:38.280
is because we've had experience of coming across it. We've

720
00:42:38.280 --> 00:42:41.639
had conversations. If I'm sitting in a cafe area, I

721
00:42:41.760 --> 00:42:43.480
might talk to them about what we watch it like,

722
00:42:43.519 --> 00:42:45.159
look at that, Look at that mister with it doggie

723
00:42:45.159 --> 00:42:45.480
over there?

724
00:42:45.519 --> 00:42:47.280
Do you think that doggie is a good doggie? Okay?

725
00:42:47.320 --> 00:42:48.559
How do you know it's a good doggie.

726
00:42:49.000 --> 00:42:51.239
Look at the way that that doggie over there with

727
00:42:51.320 --> 00:42:54.199
that mister isn't even going back to his owner. And

728
00:42:54.920 --> 00:42:58.760
you start to have conversations about the real world. And

729
00:42:58.800 --> 00:43:01.400
then what I do is always bring it into something

730
00:43:01.440 --> 00:43:03.760
that's kind of age relevant. So for young children at

731
00:43:03.800 --> 00:43:07.519
the minute, bluey Pepper Pig. For my children many many

732
00:43:07.599 --> 00:43:09.840
years ago, it was still Winnie the Pooh because that

733
00:43:09.960 --> 00:43:14.400
was quite popular, Pokemon things like that. We would have conversations,

734
00:43:14.679 --> 00:43:18.920
but I would also take my phone calls with the

735
00:43:18.960 --> 00:43:21.920
speaker on in terms of if it was a scam call,

736
00:43:22.079 --> 00:43:26.119
if it was, And it's become part of my children's

737
00:43:26.199 --> 00:43:30.199
narrative right that I challenge everything. And one particular phone

738
00:43:30.239 --> 00:43:33.039
call was the bank had phoned me up and said, right,

739
00:43:33.119 --> 00:43:35.360
we just want to take you through a few security checks.

740
00:43:35.360 --> 00:43:36.960
Could you tell us your date to birth? And I said,

741
00:43:36.960 --> 00:43:39.199
how do I know you the bank? And they said,

742
00:43:39.360 --> 00:43:41.079
because it's the bank calling you. And I said, but

743
00:43:41.119 --> 00:43:43.440
it's come up without a number. And this went back

744
00:43:43.480 --> 00:43:47.800
and forth for nearly twenty minutes, and the customer service

745
00:43:47.800 --> 00:43:49.960
rep said, well, you know, if you can't prove who

746
00:43:50.039 --> 00:43:51.840
you are, I said, well, you can't prove who you

747
00:43:51.880 --> 00:43:53.480
are he said, we were going to have to lock

748
00:43:53.519 --> 00:43:55.400
your account. I said, off, you go then, and it

749
00:43:55.440 --> 00:43:57.440
turned out it was actually the bank and then on

750
00:43:57.480 --> 00:43:58.039
my account.

751
00:44:00.760 --> 00:44:03.880
That's brilliant, honest. It's so brilliant that it goes into

752
00:44:03.880 --> 00:44:06.079
what I always tell parents in terms of what they

753
00:44:06.239 --> 00:44:09.880
hear you say out loud is what they internalize later.

754
00:44:10.199 --> 00:44:12.199
So what they hear you say about other people, about

755
00:44:12.199 --> 00:44:15.039
other situations and about them out loud, it's going to

756
00:44:15.039 --> 00:44:17.800
become their internal voice. And so let's say that you

757
00:44:17.840 --> 00:44:20.960
want your kids to like know how to come to

758
00:44:21.000 --> 00:44:23.360
you if somebody is grooming them online, if you see

759
00:44:23.360 --> 00:44:25.440
a news story about a kid who was groomed online,

760
00:44:25.480 --> 00:44:27.320
or let's just say in the United States, we had

761
00:44:27.320 --> 00:44:29.679
a past couple of cases of kids who are kidnapped

762
00:44:29.760 --> 00:44:34.280
or yeah, from someone they met online. If your immediate

763
00:44:34.280 --> 00:44:36.800
reaction to the news story is, oh my god, like,

764
00:44:36.840 --> 00:44:39.280
why are these kids playing, like playing with strangers or

765
00:44:39.280 --> 00:44:41.480
meeting them? Why would they ever meet somebody? So your

766
00:44:41.559 --> 00:44:44.960
kid is now internalizing that conversation. And so I believe

767
00:44:45.000 --> 00:44:47.679
doing that in the opposite exactly what doctor Katz said,

768
00:44:47.800 --> 00:44:50.880
where you're intentionally saying things out loud so that your

769
00:44:50.920 --> 00:44:53.920
kid has an internal voice, your internal voice or your

770
00:44:54.000 --> 00:44:57.280
voice in their in their head. That's positive. That allows

771
00:44:57.320 --> 00:45:00.039
them to feel confident coming to you or confident for

772
00:45:00.119 --> 00:45:04.199
getting situations. Then typically we would conceal. So typically you

773
00:45:04.199 --> 00:45:08.239
would not have your bank on a speakerphone, right, But

774
00:45:08.360 --> 00:45:11.079
you're modeling because you had that on speakerphone. You're modeling

775
00:45:11.079 --> 00:45:13.639
for your kids what to do. If someone were to say, hey,

776
00:45:13.719 --> 00:45:16.360
I am Roblocks and I need your password because someone

777
00:45:16.360 --> 00:45:18.360
got into your account, They're going to think, oh, wait

778
00:45:18.360 --> 00:45:20.039
a minute, like, I remember that conference, How do I

779
00:45:20.039 --> 00:45:21.719
know it's actually Roadblocks? How do I know that this

780
00:45:21.760 --> 00:45:23.639
is Fortnite? How do I know that this is actually

781
00:45:23.679 --> 00:45:26.440
Instagram or TikTok snapchat? Want to me to verify my

782
00:45:26.519 --> 00:45:29.840
identity because that's sometimes also how hackers get to kids.

783
00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:31.639
So I love that so much. You can do the

784
00:45:31.639 --> 00:45:33.039
same thing with new stories. You see in a new

785
00:45:33.039 --> 00:45:35.039
story some kid ran away and you're like, oh my god,

786
00:45:35.559 --> 00:45:38.039
I know you meet so many great people online. They

787
00:45:38.079 --> 00:45:40.159
must have thought like, hey, I'm meeting some a friend.

788
00:45:40.400 --> 00:45:42.920
That's so upsetting that it turned out not to be

789
00:45:42.960 --> 00:45:45.320
a friend. I really hope that the family's able to

790
00:45:45.400 --> 00:45:48.800
whatever you have a positive reaction to that so that

791
00:45:48.840 --> 00:45:51.360
your kid goes, oh, wait a minute, because they might

792
00:45:51.360 --> 00:45:53.079
hear you in the other room. And it also helps

793
00:45:53.119 --> 00:45:55.039
you so even if your kid is not around, it

794
00:45:55.039 --> 00:45:57.280
helps you get into the mindset of having your reaction

795
00:45:57.400 --> 00:46:01.000
out loud that is conducive to your child's safety, so

796
00:46:01.039 --> 00:46:03.320
that when you actually get into a situation where you

797
00:46:03.400 --> 00:46:06.119
have to react, your knee jerk reaction is something that

798
00:46:06.239 --> 00:46:08.239
is actually helpful to your goods.

799
00:46:08.480 --> 00:46:11.000
And to add on to that, for either, there are

800
00:46:11.039 --> 00:46:13.360
times that we don't put things out loud, and I'm

801
00:46:13.400 --> 00:46:16.679
going to say that includes social media videos. Sadly, we

802
00:46:16.719 --> 00:46:18.679
do live in a time when parents play a video

803
00:46:18.840 --> 00:46:22.760
it is overheard by a child. And what I'm going

804
00:46:22.800 --> 00:46:24.880
to say is, I'm going to take your phrase there,

805
00:46:24.920 --> 00:46:27.559
mainly because I've already recorded the video and it's going out.

806
00:46:27.599 --> 00:46:30.760
Your children are in the room, and even if they're

807
00:46:30.800 --> 00:46:33.719
physically in your I don't know your living.

808
00:46:33.519 --> 00:46:36.800
Space, and you play a video, you.

809
00:46:36.639 --> 00:46:39.760
Play something that is talking about the children that run away.

810
00:46:39.760 --> 00:46:43.559
And of course there are always reactive videos online, there

811
00:46:43.559 --> 00:46:47.039
are always news reports. What does tend to happen is

812
00:46:47.119 --> 00:46:48.880
people might share it with the oh my god, I

813
00:46:48.880 --> 00:46:52.679
can't believe they were so stupid that child. Then here's

814
00:46:52.719 --> 00:46:56.239
that video and goes, oh, mum agrees with it because

815
00:46:56.239 --> 00:47:00.320
she's watching it. Dad said blah blah blah because he

816
00:47:00.320 --> 00:47:02.920
heard this on a video. So it's always bearing in

817
00:47:03.000 --> 00:47:06.039
mind what we watch on video on demand, what we

818
00:47:06.159 --> 00:47:10.920
watch on our devices, what we play out loud, is

819
00:47:11.119 --> 00:47:14.639
also being broadcast to the children. And that is a

820
00:47:14.679 --> 00:47:20.840
direct finding from my PhD. Children weren't necessarily traumatized by

821
00:47:20.880 --> 00:47:23.239
some of what they were doing. It was what their

822
00:47:23.360 --> 00:47:26.760
parents were playing, listening to, showing, et cetera, et cetera.

823
00:47:26.880 --> 00:47:32.320
And I call that by proxy viewing or by proxy impacts.

824
00:47:32.360 --> 00:47:38.840
Really okay, So how can we empower kids? Because right

825
00:47:38.920 --> 00:47:42.199
now I think the parents probably trying to address this,

826
00:47:42.760 --> 00:47:46.360
they're going to be scaring the kids, not empowering them

827
00:47:46.559 --> 00:47:52.559
to feel that they can they have the capability of

828
00:47:52.639 --> 00:47:56.559
making good decisions, doing the right thing. How can we,

829
00:47:56.960 --> 00:48:03.400
you know, teach our kids to be digital citizens and

830
00:48:04.039 --> 00:48:07.719
not just rule followers and stay.

831
00:48:07.440 --> 00:48:11.320
Safe by being good digital citizens ourselves. That would be

832
00:48:11.719 --> 00:48:17.320
a starting point, wouldn't it if we all behaved sensibly, nicely, compassionately.

833
00:48:18.039 --> 00:48:20.920
I would certainly say Angela in terms of and I

834
00:48:20.920 --> 00:48:23.679
think for readA and I share a lot of very

835
00:48:23.679 --> 00:48:27.800
similar opinions on this. Helping parents understand the real world

836
00:48:27.880 --> 00:48:30.400
can be scary and so can the online world. And

837
00:48:30.599 --> 00:48:34.880
generally we're saying to children things that help them understand

838
00:48:34.920 --> 00:48:40.719
critical thinking, so not pejorative thinking, but critical thinking, having

839
00:48:40.760 --> 00:48:42.840
that air of how do I know this person is

840
00:48:42.880 --> 00:48:46.440
who they say they are? And yes, engage in conversations

841
00:48:46.639 --> 00:48:53.159
with an element of wariness, cautiousness, and conversations that you're

842
00:48:53.199 --> 00:48:57.800
generally having with your child. So there are programs and

843
00:48:57.880 --> 00:49:01.360
products that will look at and I use these when

844
00:49:01.360 --> 00:49:03.480
my children were on the internet very very early on,

845
00:49:04.280 --> 00:49:07.320
because I come from tech, I actually put things on

846
00:49:07.719 --> 00:49:10.199
and what I noticed is in some of the games

847
00:49:10.199 --> 00:49:12.039
and this is going all the way back to Habo Hotel,

848
00:49:12.039 --> 00:49:14.880
which I'm sure for Eeda will have possibly engaged with

849
00:49:15.119 --> 00:49:16.239
that game.

850
00:49:16.679 --> 00:49:19.000
People were using acronyms. So I used to say, well

851
00:49:19.000 --> 00:49:19.719
what does that mean?

852
00:49:20.679 --> 00:49:24.119
And sometimes when I'm working with the children in therapy,

853
00:49:24.159 --> 00:49:27.119
I still pretend I don't know what things mean, because

854
00:49:27.159 --> 00:49:31.480
sometimes allowing the child to educate you can be the

855
00:49:31.480 --> 00:49:34.639
way that you learn. So it's not necessarily are what

856
00:49:34.679 --> 00:49:38.719
are you doing? It's uh, I don't understand that what's

857
00:49:38.760 --> 00:49:42.760
happening there. And this is exactly what I do with

858
00:49:42.840 --> 00:49:45.679
children in therapy. So I use these games. I use roadblocks,

859
00:49:45.719 --> 00:49:49.360
I use Fortnite, and we talk about the language people use,

860
00:49:49.760 --> 00:49:53.679
the avatars that they're representing themselves with. Is the male

861
00:49:53.880 --> 00:49:58.159
avatar a male person playing as a male avatar or

862
00:49:58.239 --> 00:50:00.639
is it somebody dressing up as a male avatar that

863
00:50:00.719 --> 00:50:03.800
could be in that game to make to male avatar.

864
00:50:03.880 --> 00:50:07.760
And we have those kinds of discussions general chit chat

865
00:50:07.920 --> 00:50:12.280
whilst watching and engaging in the game, because what I'm

866
00:50:12.360 --> 00:50:16.320
helping the child understand in the therapy office is I'm

867
00:50:16.360 --> 00:50:20.880
helping them navigate the world. But soon enough, and parents

868
00:50:20.880 --> 00:50:22.760
are not always keen on this, I will bring them

869
00:50:22.760 --> 00:50:25.159
in and I will say, sit here, watch the game,

870
00:50:25.400 --> 00:50:27.760
Watch how we have a conversation. I now want you

871
00:50:27.880 --> 00:50:29.480
to go and emulate that in the real world.

872
00:50:30.280 --> 00:50:36.840
Yeah. Help, the child is doing great, well, this is

873
00:50:37.039 --> 00:50:41.760
this has just been just so much and we did

874
00:50:41.800 --> 00:50:45.000
not get through everything. So you're going to have to

875
00:50:45.039 --> 00:50:49.159
come back because we, like I said, we need to inform.

876
00:50:49.239 --> 00:50:55.440
We need to help parents and be informed and and

877
00:50:55.559 --> 00:50:58.880
just maybe changing our language, our behavior and a whole

878
00:50:58.880 --> 00:51:01.760
lot of other things too, So I have learned a lot.

879
00:51:01.880 --> 00:51:04.880
Thank you so much for being here. We are going

880
00:51:04.920 --> 00:51:08.840
to do this again and keep the conversation going. And

881
00:51:08.960 --> 00:51:12.119
so I just want to say, for those that tuned in,

882
00:51:12.239 --> 00:51:15.719
thank you for joining us at a Sharp Outlook. And

883
00:51:16.119 --> 00:51:19.519
we're here every Monday at eleven am Eastern time eight

884
00:51:19.559 --> 00:51:24.960
am Pacific time, and we're here to help you to

885
00:51:25.079 --> 00:51:29.599
be informed and have knowledge and tools to be able

886
00:51:29.679 --> 00:51:32.559
to be your best self and live your best life.

887
00:51:32.920 --> 00:51:38.119
So join us again, Thank you, and as always, stay informed.

888
00:51:42.360 --> 00:51:44.519
I want to thank you for joining us on a

889
00:51:44.599 --> 00:51:48.360
Sharp Outlook. We have been informed and energized to take

890
00:51:48.360 --> 00:51:52.079
the next steps. We have posted links to websites and

891
00:51:52.199 --> 00:51:55.960
videos to learn more on today's time. Please join us

892
00:51:56.000 --> 00:52:00.320
again next week for another thought provoking conversation right here

893
00:52:00.719 --> 00:52:05.519
on ky for HD radio and Talk for TV. Listen

894
00:52:05.559 --> 00:52:09.760
to the podcast on all the podcast apps, and until

895
00:52:09.880 --> 00:52:12.039
next week, stay informed.