Suicide Awareness

0:01 This program is designed to provide general information with regards to the subject matters covered. This information is given with the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial, legal counseling, professional service, or any advice. You should seek the services of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas. Hello, and thank you for tuning in to a Sharp Outlook on pay for HD radio and Talk or TV. I am Angela Sharp. Your host our arm chair discussions with industry experts will give you the steps, tools and information to be successful in business and to prepare you to be your best self. Hello, I'm Angela Sharp and welcome to a Sharp Outlook. Our topic to day is difficult, but it's something that we really need to talk about openly and honestly. When a family member dies of natural causes, there is a time period of grieving that takes place.

1:15 When someone dies of suicide, their loved ones are grieving and are left with questions like how could this have happened? Processing the grief, loss and guilt is necessary. Showing up and supporting those who are grieving is important and very valuable for their healing. If you are feeling overwhelmed by thoughts of not wanting to live or having urges to attempt to end your life, please get help now. The services are free and confidential. During the upcoming holidays, we should be aware that suicides increase. Checking in on others that might not have family relationships is important. Globally, there are over seven hundred and twenty thousand people who die of suicide every year. It is the second leading cause of death among people ages ten to fourteen and twenty to thirty four. That was amazing information when I researched this.

2:26 The majority of suicides are males, and poisoning is among the most common means worldwide. What's happening with our children? Why are they wanting to die? What is the source of so much unhappiness? This is a difficult subject to discuss, but we must remove the stigma and start talking and find solutions to this silent epidemic. My guest today is going to be able to clear up some of those questions and also talk about the experience. Doctor Anne Pendell, MD, FACP is an internal medicine physician and geriatrician who's spent more than thirty years caring for patients and supporting colleagues and finding joy and meaning in their work. She also is a certified coach with Passion, where her passion lies in helping healthcare teams thrive with purpose, clarity, and heart.

3:37 Anne's commitment to fostering connection and belonging deepened after the death of her son by suicide. While she does not claim expertise in suicide prevention, she openly shares her personal experience a profound loss to reduce stigma, invite conversation, and encourage compassionate support for individuals and families navigating mental health challenges. Throughout her career, including her most recent role as Senior Medical Director for Physician and app Experience at inter Mountain Health, Anne has focused on creating an environment where people feel seeing, supported, and valued. Her advocacy today centers on the belief that naming suicide, honoring our stories, and creating space for hard conversations can help cultivate compassion, connection, and hope. Outside of medicine, and and her husband Duncan, raised five children and now delight in five grandchildren. Her therapy dogs Olive and Alie, help bring comfort and connection to healthcare workers and extend of Anne's lifelong commitment to caring for others. And I'd like to ask you to join me today so we

5:08 can begin this discussion. Thank you for being willing to share your personal journal journey happy to be here. Yes, you've shared that connection and belonging have played a meaningful role in your personal and professional life. Caring about why checking in on others and creating supportive, caring and environments matters so much, especially during tender times. Why do you feel this way? Well, I think primarily my clinical experience as an internest and geriatrician, caring for patients often who have chronic illness where we can't fix but can manage or have conversations about what's important. Really building those connections with patients build trust and confidence and care, and that really has been central to my clinical practice. And then as I stepped into leadership roles, it's just seemed to, you know, a natural transition to apply those same the same importance of connection in that setting. And as people who know me know that I'm a relationship focused leader and that has served me well, I also recognize, especially following the death of my son, is well maybe I should take a

6:41 step back. What I realized in my clinical practice is many people are struggling with really hard things and struggling alone and don't have someone to talk with or feel supported. And so that was really one of my first takeaways about the importance of connection and having that community. And then when Robbie died, I was in both a leadership role and I still was in my clinical practice role, and I then became so much more acutely aware of the power of those people that weren't afraid to check in, who weren't afraid to reach out and connect. It was powerful.

7:30 And of course, you know at the beginning you've got a lot of people checking in on you, but ass time passes, it is less and less. And those that would send a quick text to say, oh, I was doing this and thought of you, or I was doing this and it reminded me of you was so important for me and healing in so many ways. And not that I ever believed I didn't matter, but those small little connections really reinforce the belief that I was seen.

8:11 Yeah, and I realize how important that is. I know, probably a lot of people think, oh, she's so busy or she's doing this, or she's got great things going on, or things like that. They don't realize that, regardless of how important your job is, or how successful you are in your career or whatever they're thinking, because they're viewing from the outside. We have moments of sadness. We have moments where we need to tell somebody that we're not quite all right. But those people think everything's so good with you or cool with you. They don't check in. They don't say are you okay?

8:52 You know, are you all right? And so I'm here to say everybody needs that connection. Check in, send a text, post something, just say I'm thinking about you and I'm sending a hug. That means so much. Believe me, really, you know so much for people to just do that, if you know someone, check in on them, if you just faintly know them, you know. But there are work, you know, colleague or whatever, doesn't hurt to check in and just see how they're doing. It's really I like that thought there.

9:32 Yeah, I do think what you said initially is that many people think that, oh, they're so busy, I don't want to bother them, and that's that's just not the case. And you know, a text message is nice because it doesn't really require a response. You can put a heart emoji or something on it. But just knowing that someone else out there is thinking of. You, yeah, yeah, and that you're just seen, you're seen, or you're even just maybe a brief thought in someone's mind. You know, it's important. You know, believe me, I'll make time just to be noticed. I'll make time just to take and receive your hello. It just means a lot.

10:21 And so I I yeah, I wholeheartily agree that that is true for anyone listening who may be struggling or supporting a loved one. Resources such as nine eight eight suicide and Crisis Lifeline are available. Why isn't it important for us to know these resources exist even if we're not sure what to say or how to help people. Well, that's such a good question, and I think I learned this in my physician leadership work that men any leaders were unsure how to approach difficult conversations or were worried about maybe saying the wrong thing, or you know, not knowing what to do if they learned information from the person they were speaking to that required some immediate attention and knowing what the resources are that are available to you helps decrease some of the anxiety about having those conversations. Also, one of the other things that we learned is that by talking about those hard things, it became clear that knowing or asking for support or knowing that you might need support was really viewed as a sign of strength. And so being able to change that

11:56 conversation to really speak of it's ok to raise your hand to ask for help, and if you do, here are the resources that can help you. That became really powerful, and I think it helped people also not be afraid to take that step into a difficult conversation. They were more confident and not as likely to avoid. It, right right, Yeah, it is you know, you think about people that are isolated. I used to counsel people at the alcohol drug treatment centers and also homeless people, and their biggest statement was I feel forgotten. I feel like no one cares. I feel like why should I wake up tomorrow? And I would probably didn't use the right tone because I wasn't trained, but I would say I don't want you to ever say that again, because you are important, you are valuable, you have gift inside of you that you haven't tapped into, and so we want to change his conversation and find out what really brings you joy and what really brings you happiness, because you there's something inside of you. We were all given something and now let's work on that one. But and a lot of that is we get so caught up in our daily lives. We don't notice anyone else but ourselves,

13:28 and we have to reach out and touch, reach out and touch somebody's hands. Make this place a better place if you can. That was a good song, he was so yeah, and we probably need to start singing it more. We need to reach out, we need to touch. You know, social media is great way of doing it since people are scattered around the country and maybe not living in the same places. But just like we said, reaching out and touching them in some way is really helpful. Your mission is rooted in the belief that while you cannot change the past, you can use your experience to help reduce stigma and create space for conversation. How do you choose to raise your voice and create awareness in these days?

14:21 Probably the most important thing that I've done is really share my story about my son and the impact of his death on me and my family and kind of my inability to fix the grief. You know, in healthcare we're fixers, and that is one of the things that I initially believed that I could fix this, and by this I mean the grief that goes with the death of a child. I think talking about suicide it kind of names the really uncomfortable thing that people don't like to talk about, which in some ways normalizes those conversations and decreases some of the stigma. I talked before about normalizing help seeking and making it be okay to raise your hand and say I need some help. The other thing that I found surprising is that as I shared my story and my family's story and Robbie's story, people would seek me out and share their stories. It may not have been of suicide, but of struggles, and every now and again someone would say, watching you navigate this

15:54 has given me hope that I can navigate the hard things that I do as well. And I hadn't really realized that, you know, people are watching us, and you know, it wasn't pretty. There were days at work that I was pretty tearful and you know, didn't have it all together. And I think that that kind of created that safe space for people to gravitate towards me and share things that were hard. So, oh, go ahead, Yeah, I was going to say, so the loss of your son pretty much changed you, change your life forever?

16:38 Yeah? How is that experience with grief influenced the way you show up as a physician or a leader, or a coach or a neighbor. How how all those things? Yeah? I think probably most important is with empathy and curiosity. I'm much more a two uned too, asking questions, wondering what's behind either a behavior or a comment. I'm also very aware that grief is this journey that kind of goes up and down. And sometimes I felt like I was actually maybe coming out of grief, and then COVID happened, so kind of a setback there, and my mom became ill and she passed away, another setback, and so being able to give myself some grace that I don't have it all figured out, and it was okay just to be where I was, wherever that was was where I needed to be at the time. Initially, I and some like grief writing workshops and some group work and thinking

18:08 that I could work my way through this because that's how I approach everything, is figuring out how to make it better. And this was not one of those things that could be made better. It just needed to take its own time, its own journey. I suppose I'm kinder. I mean I felt like I was kind before, but really recognizing that everyone's got. Something yeah, yeah, and it is whenever someone lose a family member or loved one, you just don't know what words to say, because I've kind of feel just from experiencing death in my family, there's nothing you can say because that is just a stopping point of something that you were clinging to, and so you can't pretend like it didn't happen. So there's no changing it. But it's a matter of how to put it in the right place in your life so it doesn't control you or things like that. But and I don't, you know, how do you say something like that. It's just kind of difficult.

19:25 And I'm one who does a lot of talking, but even I become a little apprehensive because I don't know what to say when someone is lost, especially a child or I've experienced this parent and a sibling, but not a child. And so they all have their place in our lives. And I think it's the grief. Nobody wants to go through it and no one has ever taught us how to go through it. Yeah, and it and it's it's just kind of interesting. You've written about what's helpful and what isn't after your son's death, you know, so you've learned about these things and you did some writing, and you know, and how to present, you know, for people who are grieving, how to be present, how to how to talk to them is empathy. You say, empathy, that's one of the compassion and empathy is the best thing to do.

20:40 And not not being afraid to show up. I think sometimes people worry about saying the wrong thing, so they stay away because they don't know what to say. And I had a close friend who had a child that passed away from cancer, and she said, you know, there's no word for the loss of a child. If you lose a spouse, you're a widow or widower. If you don't have parents, you're an orphan. But there's no word because it's unfathomable that you would have a child that dies. Yeah, And when she said that, it just felt so true.

21:22 There is no word and so if there is no word just showing up being present, I do talk. I did talk a lot about that language does matter, and saying committed suicide sounded like my son committed a crime or committed a sin, and so in my language, being just really clear that he died by suicide felt more accurate, more honest, more real. It probably made some people uncomfortable. Sometimes I'll say I've lost my son, and when I say that, it softens it. But then it also seems to imply that I can find him somewhere, like if I just look hard enough. And so I try not to say that just in my conversations, but I think that text check in. Like we talked about at the beginning, naming it, I will say that, And we talked about connections.

22:37 The people that asked about my son using his name, Robbie, tell me about Robbie. Tell me one thing that you just loved so much about him was really wonderful, and it was often from people that didn't know me. Well. It felt so very much like we were honoring him and then he was still with us, and that was really powerful. Yeah. Yeah, just naming him and bringing it up like he exists, he exists and just expressing that that's some really good information because I'm sure, just like myself, we don't know how to approach you know, uncomfortable conversations, and most of the time we stay away. And that's probably the worst thing because that person is really alone, they're in silence, they're grieving, and and you don't want them to go to a point of depression. So just reaching out and letting them know you know, they're still keep going because you know, grief doesn't follow a timeline. It just doesn't. You can't say, for these three months, this is what I'm going to do, and then it's going to be over. It's not something that's on the timeline.

24:03 So how do you navigate ongoing grief well still maintaining careers and full life and things like that. How do you maintain it? Oh that's such a good question, and I don't really know how I maintained it, to be honest with you. I was thinking about that today as we were getting ready to have our conversation, and you know, it wasn't linear at all, and I kind of talk about creating a safe space, so like what feels safe for me? So maybe it's not going out and doing something that I would normally do or being with people wasn't the right thing for me to do, but it was better to stay home. I wasn't able to fix it, like I said before, and so giving myself some grace, recognizing that it was is going to take time, whatever amount of time it was going to be mm hmm. Having something meaningful to get out of bed for each day. Yeah, yeah, definitely, that I think was really useful. I so funny talking to not funny, but talking with people who have had a spouse die, you know, and say, you know, you don't have to come back to work right away, you can take some more time, and I often hear, no, No,

25:36 it's really good for me to have some place to get up and go. To mm hmmm. Yeah. So having some of that structure I think was really useful, and knowing when I needed to have that quiet time and give myself grace to do that. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Like I said, it's it's just a difficult thing. And now do you think during grief everyone probably has their own method or their own way of grieving. Are there some good, good approaches or good phrases or something we can do without unintentionally causing harm.

26:22 Are there different things we can say and do. I think I'm going to go back to the being present piece. I was given a book by someone called Healing after Loss, and it was a daily meditation, and that was something that grounded me every morning. It was wintertime, and so I would lay in my bed and read the meditation, and I would look out my window at the in Salt Lake City, so it was snowy, the snow on the trees, and birds would come to visit the tree, and I would look at that and I would get that sense that my son was with me.

27:07 That was something that was really so useful. And I've had others give me books that they found useful themselves, and that was also helpful. I think you're just kind of trial and erring it. M M. Yeah, yeah, it's it's I don't think anybody is a master of something like that, because even you know, when when we've lost as we're older, we've lost our parents, but every Mother's day, every Father's day, you it all bubbles back up and you feel that sense of loss, you feel that sense of not being there, but then you kind of remember, you know, a special meal that was cooked. Wow, it was so good. Like, you know, everybody had their holiday meals and those they're thinking about the cakes and the pies and you know, just just running through all the things you know that I missed about them. But I was able to smile instead of you know, crying. It was just like good memories, good thoughts, yes, like that, and so changing maybe changing that grief to remembering those funny times, those yeah, giggly times, you know, yeah, you know, I'm.

28:35 Laughing with what you said, because when our first grandchild was born, it was so painful and I hadn't anticipated that, and it was really that terrible grief of thinking that my son isn't going to know his nephew, and it was it was heartbreaking. It was heartbreaking for me as a mother, and then heartbreaking as a grandmother because I was so sad about Robbie that I had a really hard time finding the joy in the birth of a grandchild. And then over time, listening to my son talk with his boys about Uncle Rob and we're getting jelly donuts.

29:22 Uncle Rob loved jelly donuts, and so they've kind of incorporated those funny things and those funny stories of when they were growing up, or when they were skiing, or when they were playing hockey together. That has really, like just how you said, it has just created this really lovely memory of him. And we used to look at birds when I was with my grandchildren. I'd say, you know, there's Uncle Rob. He's up there, he's a bird. And you know, it was a nice way of remember bring, a really nice way of remembering and really comforting.

30:06 Yeah, trying to remember them the good things about them and not you know, concentrating on the wise or whatever. Yeah, those are things that we just won't know, but just remember remember them when they were smiling, they were laughing, they were being naughty all of us. Yes, great things about them. Healthcare can be a stigmatized environment when it comes to discussing emotional struggle. How has your experience reinforced the importance of open dialogue and compassionate leadership in health care and everywhere?

30:51 I would think, yeah, that's so true. I think that, you know, in healthcare, trained to be fixers. We're trained to have the answers. We're you know, we deal with really hard things and then we move on to the next and that's just how we operate. And so being able, especially during COVID. COVID really became a time where people recognize that they didn't have this infinite capacity to work so hard to fix everything, and it was so out of our control that that really kind of opened a window or opened the door to have some of those conversations for how are you taking care of yourself? How as a leader, how do I take care of my team? What?

31:44 What are they going to need? Again? What resources do we have that are available so that when there's an unexpected death or something really difficult happens, how can we build in support? And I know you mentioned our therapy dogs. All of an Alie will occasionally get phone calls from the children's hospital in our city if there's been a death in the emergency room of a child. Can the dogs come up for the staff as they process what happened? And I think a piece of that is really starting to normalize the emotional toll, the emotional challenges of the jobs that we have in healthcare. And one of the things that pry too really important things was starting a peer support program at my health system. So how do we in our teams know what to look for, how to check in with people know what the resources are, so we're not afraid to speak up. And same with the leaders. How do we lead with I call it that well being mindset, but really thinking about if someone's having some issues, is there something behind that behavior that needs to be addressed as well. I'm caring for a sick child and trying to work. I'm caring for elderly parents and I'm trying to work, and I'm not balancing that as well. And so I think simply having that conversation,

33:21 having a conversation, so normalizing it, and then having resources in place at a system level to support the individuals of the team has been really important. Right, you know, being working in finance, being a chief financial officer and then also working in software technology, it's so you're always resolving issues that you almost become desensitized. Yeah, And as you were mentioning the healthcare always coming up with an answer, We're always supposed to have an answer, and so we do become de sensive ties to anything that might be emotional because it's you know, black and white.

34:06 Black and white solve the problems, solve the problem all the time, and almost to the point where you're not touching, you're not involved, you're not engaged, and so, like you were saying, having that leadership where you're going to notice something is wrong when you're because they come in, You see their behaviors, see their mannerisms, you see those things. Look at something more than just the balance sheet, look at something more than just the report coming out, look at the people behind it, and see if they're okay. You know that. I think that leaders need to that needs to be in the leadership training programs, that there's more to it than just making sure the work is being done. Yes, that's that's a responsibility. But you are in a team, you're in with a group people. There should be enough association that you can sense something's not quite right and then have that openness and that open door where they aren't afraid to tell you I've had this problem, my son is in this situation, my cat died yesterday. You know, these things affect people emotionally, so you need to identify this is not you know, not quite a good day. You know, figure out and then figure out you know what words to say to cheer them up and you know, get them motivated or keep

35:39 them motivated or you know whatever. So your mission is rooted in the belief that while you cannot change the paths, you can use your experience to reduce stigma. And I'm just wondering, what are some other things that we can be doing to maybe reduce the stigma of the conversation of not just death, but suicide. Yeah, I think not being afraid to talk about it, to say the word. You and I connected after I posted in September. I always do a LinkedIn post or Instagram post in September for suicide Awareness Month, and it's always hard to do that, but that I feel is one of my one of the things that I can do to support people so that they're not afraid to have a conversation. And I know that sounds kind of nebulous, but I've heard from individuals thank you so much for saying that you gave me some words. I have someone who's going through that now. I'm going to check in with them. Those that that seems to be what matters

37:16 is really not being afraid to talk about the hard things, the messiness. Of life, right right, And And like I said, like you said, it's a word that has a stigma, and I think we need to remove the stigma. You know. I had someone on earlier in the year from the United Kingdom. It's called Brain Charity, and they're dealing with neurodivergence and people with brain issues and you know, ADHD or autism or just different things. And we have stigmas about things we don't understand, and so instead of trying to find a way to understand and be a part of a solution, we'd rather just set them apart. These are people over here and we're just not going to deal with them. Like they're not breathing today. They're still breathing, they're still walking around, they're still here, and what they need is, like I said, you, to reach out and touch them. Let's not be afraid of this word, because we're losing far too many people because we won't talk about it. It's not something that's a contagion, you know, it's something where we can be what we're supposed to be, loving our neighbors as we love ourselves and reaching out

38:50 and touching that person. Some of you are hearing conversations that you know don't quite sound right. Should be talking to them about getting some help. Don't ignore them, don't brush it away. You know, it's just we shouldn't be afraid to talk about it, and it shouldn't be something we only mention the word once a year. Yeah, it's it is. I think during the holidays it seems to bring all of those holidays and birthdays, I think, or the big moments where those feelings get brought to the surface, and so being more mindful over the holidays, I mean all the time, of course, but you know, thinking about the person who, in your example, never makes mistakes on the spreadsheet, but now you're seeing things that don't add up. Why is that? What's going on with them? Or the person who shows up to work usually you know, well groomed is now wearing a hoodie and sweatpants. I mean, what's behind that? What's happening for that person? And I think the noticing that you talked about is so important and it requires us to kind of get out of our heads and you know, look around us right right and

40:25 getting to know the person right. So you needed to know that this person never makes mistakes on their spreadsheets and now they are, or this person shows up to work meticulously groomed and is not. And that goes back to that connection piece that we talked about at the very beginning. Right right is a thought just hit my mind, Like we used to have counselors in schools and because of budget cuts, there's there's no one communicating with the students to help them deal with if their issues on a daily basis. We don't have counselors at most corporations. And we're people, we're human, we experience different things. Maybe that's something that should be considered that when someone's having problems, they have someone that they can go to, because sometimes you can't tell your other coworker what's going on, but there should be a safe space where you can a person can go and share the pressures that they're going through or the things that they're experiencing or how they're feeling, so that they can just talking. Maybe they can just need to talk and get that out. But there's there are solutions out there. I just don't know if there's organizations trying to find solutions. But I think we need to have conversations about how do we how do we

41:57 deal with this, what are some of the things things that are happening, and how do we get in tune with it so that we can be an intervention during something, you know, similar to that. You know from your perspective, not as a suicide prevention expert, but as a mother, colleague, and leader, what changes in others might prompt us to reach out or offer connection. I think probably the most important is a change. They were one way and now something's different. Or they were very social and now they're declining invitations. You don't see them walking around the neighborhood like you used to. You know what's happening there. I think that that is probably the most important, and I'm going to take it back to connection and relationships. So having a relationship with someone, getting to know them, knowing what's important to them is one of the ways that then allows you when there is a change, for you to notice it.

43:16 Mm hmm yeah. Yeah, you've shared that hope continues to show up even in profound loss. What does hope look like for you now? I think for me, hope, Well, I'm a hope giver because I do. I mean, I feel like I do believe that even on those hardest days, I felt as if I could get through this grief and sadness and find joy again. But I found most of my hope in those small acts, those small moments those acts of kindness and recognizing that hope and grief can exist together. Yeah, and they don't erase each other. They can it can be an and hope and grief. And I never gave up the hope that I would find joy again. Great.

44:18 Oh that's wonderful. Yeah, that that was very profound. Boy, that brings tears. What message would you most want to share with families, loved ones, or healthcare professionals who may be navigating their own grief or supporting someone who is struggling. What would you like to share with them? I'd like them to know that they're not alone. Yes, that connections matter. Building those relationship ships, building that community is really important. Not being afraid to reach out if you're a person who's suffering, or if you notice something not being don't be afraid to check in. I notice this, how are you doing? I've been thinking about you.

45:19 And I really believe that as humans were not meant to carry our grief alone, right, And I know that it takes some courage to take that first step to ask that question of someone, But step into that courage. M hmm. Yeah, it can really make a difference. It can really matter. And like you said, the number of people that we're losing, I think is worth those moments out of your life to say are you okay today? Yeah, we'd be all right. Well, you used to you know, facebook me, you know, every day, or used to chat and I haven't heard from you. Is everything okay?

46:10 Yeah? You know it's complicated. Yeah, it's complicated. And and really, you know, suicide affects families and communities in those deep and complicated ways. It's such a tender topic. So my hope is that we can keep talking about this with compassion, empathy, curiosity. Yeah, absolutely, as much as we can try to reach someone who's struggling, try to reach someone who's confused and and and you know they're they're not going they're not going to the high school party, or they're not going to the game, or they're not going to homecoming. You know, find out why why aren't you going to homecoming? It's like one of the greatest events during the school year. Yes, you know, what's going on? What are you thinking? When they're you know, your kids are in their rooms all the time and you don't see them and you have to call them three or four times to come to dinner.

47:26 I know they might be studying. That's a joke. I know they're not studying. But take the time to, you know, find out, you know, what's going on. You know, you haven't been down here, we haven't seen you. I want to know how your day is, How was your day? How is your day? I had a guest on talking about bullying, and they've come out with an AI thank called Bully Buddy, where the people that are dealing with being bullied can talk to something and then they have therapists that are actually getting information from the product itself to monitor that person to protect them. So maybe some of those things will help it, you know, find some friends, go you know, I know you think your parents are old and they don't know, but you know, we've been there, done that. We just don't talk about it because we're barrassed about what the things we did. But talk to your parents. They're cool people, you just don't know. Make them tell you their stories, their life stories, and get that connection. Get that connection with your child, get that connection with your sibling, get that connection with your cousin, get that connection with your neighbor, you know, and just check in and make sure everybody's all right. So that

48:56 because sometimes just talking it out, they're able to work through it and find peace and hope, like you said, and be able to move on and make those good decisions. I am so grateful that you were able to join us today to share your story and to talk about some of the things that can help us be better neighbors and citizens and humans to one another. We should care. I hope we do care. Please care, and please show up for someone that might be hurting. And if you're hurting, find some help now. Don't wait, find help now. There's a voice, there's someone who cares and they want to hear from you. Thank you Anne for joining me today, and thank you for joining A Sharp Outlook. We'll be here again next Monday at eleven am Eastern time eight am Pacific time. And as I always say, stay informed.

50:15 I want to thank you for joining us on a Sharp Outlook. We have been informed and energized to take the next steps. We have posted links to websites and videos to learn more on today's topic. Please join us again next week for another thought provoking conversation right here on key for HD radio and Talk for TV. Listen to the podcast on all the podcast apps and until next week. Stay informed,