The Messy Middle of Change: Aligning Purpose with Action in Real Organizations

0:01 This program is designed to provide general information with regards to the subject matters covered. This information is given with the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial, legal counseling, professional service, or any advice. You should seek the services. Of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas. Hello, and thank you for tuning in to a Sharp Outlook on pay for HD radio and Talk or TV. I am Angela Sharp, your host our arm chair discussions with industry experts will give you the steps, tools and information to be successful in business and to prepare you to be your best self. Hello, I'm Angela Sharp, and thank you for tuning in to a Sharp Outlook. Today we're talking about being able to regenerate, but we want to tell you there may be some messy portions in the middle trying to get to where you want to go, and we want to talk about that so you're totally aware about everything when you're trying to make those new steps in your life. The missing middle of change, you know, aligning purpose with actions in your real life and in real organizations. Transformation sounds inspiring on the slide deck, but

1:37 it feels very different when you're the one in the room facing resistance, skepticism, real world constraints. And in this conversation, I'm joined by Captain David Gallimore, who hosts the Regenerate podcast right here on top four TV or k four HD dot com. We talk about the real, messy work of change, what actually happens between a bold vision and the day to day grind, why so many purpose driven initiatives fail to influence behavior, budgets or incentives. If you've ever tried to change a team, a company, or even your own life and felt stuck, this conversation will give you practical tools, hard won stories, and a hopeful but honest look at what it takes to regenerate how we lead.

2:38 Our leaders can move from performative sustainability to truly regenerative impact on people, the planet, and profit. David shares field notes from the bridge of a ship, the boardroom, and the classroom, plus practical ways to navigate uncertainty, aligned teams, and stay grounded in purpose when everything around you is shifting. If you're a leader, founder, or change maker trying to do work that matters without burning out or selling out. This episode is for you and I'm glad you joined us today. My guest, as I mentioned, was David Gallimore, tech intrapreneur turned executive coach, entrepreneur, professor, and USCG Lycen Maritime Captain. We unpack what real transformation looks like when you're in the messy middle of change, politics, fear, resistance, and all of these things. David has spent over twenty five years as a tech entrepreneur inside companies like IBM, Boeing, CAJU, Mini, and T Mobile, and another two decades as an entrepreneur, professor, executive coach, writer, speaker, and you USCG Maritime Captain. He's here to help us look at that messy middle and come up with solutions. I'd like to invite David to

4:10 the show right now so we can get this conversation going because you really need to hear what he has to say. Hello, David, angela happy Monday, and I brought the armchair for our armshare discussion. Yeah, thank you, we need that. Comfort. Really looking forward to collaborating with you, and I know you have lots of opinions about change and as a change agent yourself, so looking forward to our conversation. All right, great, Well, what I'd like to ask you, David, is what is your origin story.

4:51 I started in a family British aerospace engineer father and a computer programming mathematic mother, both immigrants. My dad from England. I'm from Eastern Canada, and so I very much identify being a global citizen more than I do being even an American right now, especially right now. I grew up in a wonderful family. Learned to sail at five years old, or to play the piano at seven, So music and sailing were a big part of my growing up and I didn't know it at the time, but I had this neurodiversity adhd wired brain, so I was always taking on really more than I could handle, but being deadline driven got a lot done. Very much grew up in a family that recognized effort and achievement. You'll hear a little bit when we talk about identity and how one's identity gets formed.

5:57 In those early years, I would say my parents, because of their step upper left British, not necessarily the most motive people, and I felt more loved when I achieved putting gano competitions or doing well in school. That led to going to university in Connecticut, and I studied math and realized that I was not very good at math, but I was going to do what I could to be better because in the eighties, you know, the best paying jobs were doctor, lawyer, management consultant, and so I was choosing the management consultant path, not realizing that it really wasn't a very good fit at with my personality.

6:55 But back in the eighties, very much a go go, you know, get a good job, by a house, get married, and dream and so I bought into all of that achievement and kind of materialistic lifestyle. Passed forward. Met my wife, Margaret and Native American. Tal tan. She's now an elder, and changed my life. She was so grounded in nature and I think she really was an early early adopter of sustainable thinking for generation. And the distinction that I need is the generation is improving the health of people in our environment, where a sustainability is doing no harm right maintain you know, current current ways of being.

7:53 So during my career. Of thirty five years, I was that guy that could translate executive vision and mission into tech speak and look at disruptive technologies and figure out how to capitalize on that technology to create new business models. So, in your kind introduction, thank you for that. I did six entrepreneurial in other words, entrepreneurship inside large organizations. My neurodiversity, I could kind of see around the corner and connect the dots that others couldn't connect, and created a number of valuable businesses. A training business for IBM that we grew from nothing to seven and a half million dollars in about eighteen months, dot com for Boeing that we grew to a billion dollars a year in part sales and software, and Gemini to practices. So I really got to see how does change manifest in large organizations. Certainly not for the faint of heart, And as a result of sometimes being a little early, my career has been kind of up and down in terms.

9:10 Of revenue and income. And then, just to finish my origin story, I got laid off in twenty seventeen by cap Gemini with two other vps and directors. And I had just helped create a practice, a digital innovation practice from nothing to about twenty one million, and was doing a second practice, but it wasn't yet profitable and so was on the list to get released, and I really think had an awakening. I've discovered my core values, which are love and that includes family, community, empathy, kindness, you know some of those EQ quotient skill set.

10:03 Adventure. I used to have challenge, but I was having far too many problems in my life, so I chose to pivot to adventure, and I have far fewer problems and way more, way more fun heating and building. So I love to see ideas right through the art to execution MM. And finally, leadership because everything begins with an idea, and ideas only come to fruition through individual or team leadership. Therefore, leadership is everyone's business. And I think you and I've had this good discussion about how influence we can be leaders at any place in an organization, not just at the at the highest level.

10:47 So that'll be a theme that we can we can pick up as well, because I know you and I both care about young people and helping them. With their right mental health challenges. And then just to finish up, I figured out, well, where is gray hair valued? Ah, maritime captain, and because I've so much sailing at that point, done five ocean adventures, including a Coast Guard helicopter visit when we sprang a leak two hundred miles off Oregon about sixty two thousand nautical miles and earned my one hundred ton master. So I've done deliveries all over the world, but mainly ele sailors.

11:31 It's kind of my pay it forward getting back into nature and one with the whales and the porpoise and the seals and the sea lions. It's just magical to be on the water and the teaming, the team building that comes with people on a confined space, you know, a sale boat. And I would say the last two and a half years I've been focused on regenerative thinking and principles and in practice selling this house so that we can shed We don't need the space, my wife and I and the half an acre and I go to a family that's really going to enjoy it and simplify and reduce our footprint in the world. And I'll just end by saying it's such a privilege to pay it forward.

12:26 To my clients. There are so many of them that our career coaching clients for their executive coaching clients, and they're struggling as am I, and how to make the world that we live in today, and how do we stay grounded and resilient and make better decisions using applied critical thinking. So it's privileged to be a part of their journey. And then I have to be a person of integrity. I have to do the work myself, on myself my clients, otherwise I'm kind of hypocritical. So it's been and it's been a very challenging hero's journey, some might say, of my shifting from being a corporate program manager executive program manager to being an entrepreneur or solopreneur and trying to do the right thing in times of uncertainty.

13:34 So long answer to a short question, but. Hopefully that gives listeners a little bit and yourself a better three D of Dave. Right. Well, so just listening to your story, that kind of gives me the question, you know, what led you to create the Regenerate podcast? You know, where there are a specific moment or frustration that pushed you to start it. Are you, like me, wanting to get out there and make a difference for the younger generation, getting them, you know, energized, getting them involved, getting them in the right direction, helping them to find that focus in their life so they can live their dream. Everybody can, you know, go to school and get a degree and find a job. But are you living your dream because you put so many hours in two you know, generating work or generating programs or generating you know, platforms, or whatever it is that you're doing in your daily working career. And I tell people all the time, I tell the youth, pick the the industry or the profession that you're going to fall in love with, because you're going to be doing it a really long time, like fifty plus years, like most

15:06 of your life. You better love that dog, because if you don't, you're going to get up. Every day miserable and unhappy and dragging yourself to a job instead of singing and dancing and skipping your way to your dream that you see being fulfilled in front of your eyes. Is that why you're kind of done to generate podcasts? Well, first of all, I will answer your question, and I love how you characterized the importance of what I would use a shorthand called ekey guy your gifted that what you are passionate about what the world needs at this time, and well compensated and when those four circles have been.

15:55 Diagram if you will together as possible. Right, you are singing and dancing like you were, like you were saying. So the answer to your story, to your question about why the Regenerate podcast. I have a Marshall Goldsmith hunter coaches called a Glinda Sharky who has been on We've talked for media for on and off for several years. And she's in her seventies and she just. Started a new radio show called next with an exclamation point, right. That show is all about later in life, how do people find their bliss, find their singing and dancing moments?

16:44 She doesn't want to hang up her skates in her seventies. She's she read a book called lib to one hundred by business school professor, and maybe we can put that in the show notes. I'll send it to you. I don't remember professor's name. Now. A woman just terrific. Idea though, that we're living longer and so we need to really be thinking about what's that next chapter after five when a few of us are are going to be retiring. So I was on her radio show, her first guest, and I had such a blast Rebel Medler, who is her producer. She said to me as we were doing a debrief, You've got a voice for radio.

17:36 I've never been told that before, and thankfully she said, she didn't say, you have a. Face for radio. Sure you do. So I just was very inspired to pick up the phone and call Dean Piper, and one thing led to another, As you know, he's quite persuasive, and I thought, this is something that I think could be really fun, and it has been. I've done twelve episodes. I'll do number thirteen right after your show, Doctor Frank Wagner talking about leadership and stakeholders, and so, yeah, the main reason for the Regenerate show is to pay it forward to the next generator who can't necessarily afford the bill rate for my executive and career coaching, but they need it, and I would love to be an elder to help them through this medium. And I think, you know, video seems to be a very popular medium for leaders, So that's the other reason.

18:44 Yeah. Well, you know, as you were talking, I was thinking about the fact, you know, I probably have Regenerated so many times it's hard to even keep up with who I really am, you know, when I would start some thing, or i'd be working in a specific area, I work hard to get to a specific level. And when I got to that level, I said, oh, okay, so this is what this is about. Okay, now I'm bored. I've got to do something else, and I wouldn't move on to another and another and another. And so I've I've just been reimagining myself for years. And when you when someone looks at my resume, they probably think, what in the world it is so long?

19:35 I mean, I had to cut it down. Because it's got too many pages too, because they say they only want one page. How can I put all this on one page. I've just been from the beginning to the end and everything in between. And so I've seen you know so much and I've done so much. But then there's so much more that still needs to be done. We see the that's out there right now. Our youth needs some direction because we have a new evolution of technology and they are kind of more in tune than some of us older people. But they need guidances.

20:17 How do you really need to use this? How can it really be helpful to an organization? How can it really be helpful to a family. How can it really be helpful. Other than you know, calling up you know, Alexa or you know whatever. Those. Different speaking things. I don't let don't talk to me. It's interesting. I was just reading an article about how young people are using and when I say young people, I mean, let's say thirteen years old to twenties, you know, almost. They're more comfortable.

21:00 Social media, texting than they really are with face to face conversations and physical, you know, being together in the real world. They're more comfortable living in the simulation. And so we've never been more connected through this technology, but people have been experiencing ever greater loneliness and lack of engagement and psychological unsafety. Use that word because trolls that are that are on and we all know that genera AI hallucinates and young people sometimes don't distinguish what's fact from hallucination. Than any stories, sad sad stories of generative AI causing people to take their own lives.

21:57 Yeah, and that's happening. Yeah, Yeah, I think. An opportunity for those of us that care about thirteen to well, we care about all people, but certainly that. That development stage exactly. Yeah, Yeah, it's really important. And you know, I notice, you know, I sometimes go out because I have grandchildren in that age group, and you know, I read some of that stuff in a kind of like whoa. But then I have to understand what they're dealing with. They're dealing with, you know, an environment that is more anxious, more angry, more you know, solitary. You know, don't feel the need to you know, interact face to face or anything like that, because they like in this world and I don't want to call it a fantasy world, but it's a world where you know, you could create all these little people and different things and so and I used to love paper dolls and I loved, you know, all the little cartoons and things like that. But it's almost like you're living in a playground space all the time.

23:13 And what I'm trying to do as far as helping them with all of that skill that they have, because they're making little reels, they're making little stories, they're doing things like that. But can I help you guide it so that it's something that can be sustainable, that you can even turn it into something that you could do as a business since you enjoy it where you're actually informing and you're actually teaching and you're actually training with all of those skills that you have. I mean, those are talents to be able to create those little reels and those little stories and those little story boards that they do. But there's more to it than that. And like you were saying, the you.

23:58 Know, the them out there, it can hallucinate. But this is where they also should know that there's this thing called research where you always verify and validate. Somebody didn't tell you that part. While you're doing this, to make sure that the information you have, look at the resources, look at the opposite resources, and then go in and compare it. What do you think? Yeah, I was just using the analogy of a triangle to triangulate. One source could be quite biased, two sources might be in conflict. So to go to that course and see if there's a consensus esmersion. You know, I love what you said about, you know, wanting to help young people get out of I call it the simulation.

24:53 That's that's my shorthand doctor Brooks, the Harvard Happiness Professor, he use that term as well as simulation. And there's nothing wrong. I don't think when you are the consumer of where you're spending your time and your money. But what I'm noticing and I see it in my own behavior sometimes and certainly my twenty nine year old daughter and my thirty two year old son. Sometimes it's so addictive, right, you get that dopamine hit, you do likes for the reels that you continue to. The algorithm continues to feed what it thinks you want, because the whole business model is stickiness, to have eyeballs, you know, on the platform for as long as possible, helping young people be consumers and know when to stop right when to buy, you know.

25:54 And what is it really helping them? Or is it just a distraction from the very things like should I be when I grow up? And I'll tell you, I do my life all over again. I don't have any regret. That's kind of a so it's not a helpful way of looking at the world, but I do have. Anywhere anybody who's willing to listen, I say, try to get clear about your core values. We all share family oral treating people with respect, we share those common human values. And there's been study after study globally that regardless of age, ethnicity, country of origin, those basic human values are are very predictable, but that's sorty sufficient to get me out of bed on a Monday morning when I just want to put my head under the covers. And so the core values work, and often it begins with who your heroes and why they could be fictional, they could be real, be living dead.

27:07 But that's a great test of your core values because you can't see in yourself if you can't first see it in somebody else's you're living. And then that set of core values. And my recommendation is less than six because I can't remember many more than six words, but six is a good start, and it becomes a definition of success. So in the morning, when I do a little bit of journaling, I ask myself, what's one thing I could do today that might express leadership or love or impact. And following morning, I'll ask myself, so how do I do? Marshall Goldsmith, who's been a mentor of mine since the probably the last seven or eight years now, he has something called the Daily Checklist, where grade yourself.

28:08 It's totally up to you. Did I do my best too? Dot dot dot eat healthy, get enough sleep, stay off social media, you know, for less than an hour. Whatever those things are and then you give yourself did I do it or did I not do it? And every day asking that question. So I have my core values listed in my daily questions, check in and this idea. Then you can get one percent better, just incrementally better, just a little bit better every day living your core values, your definition ofs. And was shocking to me now that I've done this for several years, Way happier.

28:55 Way more less kind of blown by the wind. To use that metaphor, Well, you know, I was even thinking, not just as individuals, when we look at businesses when they all start up, they all start out with a mission statement. But do they stick to that mission statement which identifies what the core values of your company is or your product what it's going to be, and when they developed that most of them, because I've read a whole lot of those over my career, because I've been to work for a lot of corporations and nonprofits and I've seen, these are your values, this is the direction, this is your mission, and it was due no harm, and in fact, make an impact in the world, make an impact and a community, make an impact with the youth, make an impact and education. Okay, what happens that you're not meeting the core values, because I'm seeing a whole lot of harm coming from corporate you know, behaviors and things that they're doing. They're off track. How do you get them back on track so that they're back at their core values?

30:18 Yeah, such a such a great question. Another kind of visual I like to use with my executive coaching clients. So I have a software company that I've been coaching for the last three and a half years and they're growing at one hundred percent a year and they're doing really, really well financially. What really makes me happy is that who they are, what they say to themselves, and how they show up and how they present themselves out into the market, those two circles are as close together as they possibly can make them. And that's a company of integrity. So that and I think it's identifying what are the the values of the organization and that becomes part of the brand. Brand is not just or tagline or you know, marketing stuff. It's what's the customer's experience of the company. And so here about that.

31:29 And what I like to do is facilitate just simple half day kind of values discussions with leadership teams translating that into how might that refine their their vision and their mission, what's their what's their brand experience that as gelled as possible and get the leadership team aligned, because that's so critical. Then to measure the best you can. These are sometimes tricky to measure. But then how are we actually showing up in. The world, showing up and doing it? Yeah, primarily, but then also for our customers, right right?

32:14 And like I said, I've worked with a lot of major corporations, Fortune ten corporations, and I've worked with nonprofits. As I was going in my career, I reached levels where I was the one presenting information to the board of directors. They were asking me directly, you know, specific things, And one of the things I always trying to make sure I put in my presentation was their values as to why they became a business and how are we still achieving those and when we're falling short of that? Bringing that you can tell I was really loved.

32:59 You're a true tell by the forward. But maybe not the people I work with. That's why I consulted for the majority of my career, because you do have. To tell the truth. You have to have someone who has that kind of that kind of I want to say strength, but also that kind of warrior spirit that this is your job to point out where there are risks, there are weaknesses, where there are failures, so that we can change and become what it was we told them when we started. Or if you're not going to be that, then you need to change your mission statement and take it out of your little first page of your annual auto report, because it's not true anymore. It's not true anymore.

33:49 You do all the commercials, but then we who work as employees, that makes us feel like we've been betrayed because we are working to help this organization to achieve all those missions, and then we hear the other little things that are being done behind closed doors. That makes I know, because I've had employees come to me and tell me how it makes them feel. And so I'm saying, you have to consider not only the customers, not only just your stockholders, but you've got to understand you're placing people who have certain values in your organizations and you're presenting them with some very difficult things to have to deal with. Go back to the mission, go back to the values, and do a real assessment. You know what I'm saying is that part of regenerate. Hey, regenerate and get back to where you were supposed to be or where you started, or change the plan so it actually shows everyone who you really are. Now, maybe if you write that down, you may not like who you've become, and you try to go back and become what you said you were.

35:12 Going to be. Yeah, I really think you're onto something. And I don't know if you got to hear I was stepping on you with a comment that you're a truth teller and I love the warrior. Yeah, and I think that's true. When an organization is not with integrity, right, they're internal what they say they want to be, but what they actually do when those two circles are moving further and further apartorization, that's out of integrity. Similar individuals like I mentioned to you when I was pivoting from being a corporate person to being a solopreneur, I had to live of my values otherwise I was a hypocrite. And people, I think human beings, we've developed a really good BS meter, got a spidery sense when someone is out of integrity.

36:14 We don't necessarily know why. We don't trust them, but we're pretty clear that there's something you know not right. And so I think that one of the other reasons that young people are really struggling is they see across corporate right leadership, they see across government leadership, they see across many of our beloved and trusted institutions a lack of integrity. Yeah, and so young people are going, well, this whole formula for success, what is a successful person? What is a successful life?

36:55 Does it mean I have to be dishonest? Does it mean I have to say one thing and do another? Well, I don't even want to play that game, right, I think that's right. The reasons why some especially are younger men, are really struggling to struggling. Yeah, yeah, you know. I mean just think about it. To be put in a situation where you have to compromise yourself because you need to get a paycheck, that is such a really hard position. To be in. And I mean, I'm going to be honest, it's messy. It's difficult to stand your ground because it means the lights get shown on where the risk are or where the areas of integrity have really broken down, and you have to bring that to the leaders and say we need to do something about this, because this is what the people who work from you, This is what they think because you have them in compromising situations. Like I said, I became a consultant instead of an employee because I wasn't going to be in a situation where I felt threatened then I'm going to lose my job if I tell the truth.

38:09 I'm going to tell you the truth. And I even told people, if you don't want integrity and you don't want honesty, don't hire me because I have a gift and I don't you know from above that helps me find things that just aren't right. And with the financial background and a tech background, it is a combination that I'm going to find the lost piece. Whether you I hid it, buried it, whatever you tried to do with it, my bloodhound knows it's going to find it.

38:50 And because I had to look so hard, it's going to be really exceptionally hard on you. And I mean I have dealt with the Big ten and had to have conversations with that audit firms. I've had conversations with board directors and vps and everything else, and you know, and that's part of the missy middle there when they need to do a transformation. You know. Do you think that's part of the missing middle? Well, I do. By the way, I knew, I liked you, and we're even more kindred spirits than I knew. I have been a truth teller my whole career. On three occasions, it cost me my job. Once, I be when I blew the whistle on a bunch of sheanigans with the branch managers and claiming credit for PS two s, which were terrible computers, and to make their numbers, they just they basically lied about where they were in installing them. This isn't right, And so I got booted out of that department and thankfully was picked up by a different one and that's when I did my entrepreneurial training business.

40:14 But it was really scary. And the second one was at Boeing when our CEO, who was also our sponsor, was ousted by the company and the returning CEO from another merged company came back and just tout a lack of integrity and I leave after nine years. I had predicted what was going to happen with the mcasts and so many other challenges owings face over the years because they were focused on financial outcomes, customers and quality. And when you're producing airplanes that need to be at five nine mins of quality, cutting corners just to make you know their stock price rise, that that's.

41:07 Not who I am. And I think some people may have an opportunity, just like yourself and me, to learn how to spot broad and learn how to spot lack of integrity and then have the communication skills to be able to communicate that effectively. I'm sure you've got a very good checklist that you use when you're about ready to make a board presentation. You've done your homework, you have facts and data, and that is the messy middle, but it's the right reasons to hold up a mirror to leadership and say, is this really who you are? Is this how to be known?

41:52 Is this your legacy of corners? And obviously yeah, this is. And by the way, since I'm bringing this to you, here are some ideas, some recommendations I can think of to maybe turn this around and change it before it becomes a public problem, because believe me, you're not going to continue to succeed going this path. And I even used to tell when I know as a financial person, a controller CFO and director of finance and VP of finance. And I had staff and they're like, oh no, if I say that, I'm going to lose my job. I said, which, what do you want to lose your job or who you are as a person?

42:42 Yes? And I said, and by the way, and I will even say it to you educators who are out there. If you are a teaching your students in college about becoming accountants or becoming software engineers, and you don't tell them that part of their job is to make sure regulations are followed and the rules are followed and no hanky panky has going on in an organization, you have failed your student because that is going to be a challenge in their career and they need to know that before they select a career where they're panicking and scared to go to work every day because they see things and they're scared to tell somebody tell them the truth.

43:29 That is their job to find that information and reveal that information. Somewhere along the line, I was told that, so I said, that's my job, That's what I'm supposed to do. And I was going to live up the wood. It was. I committed to when I took the classes and studied and got the degree and on moving and so I took it to heart. I took it to heart, and that's what I became what I am now. I'm just going to tell the truth. I think you are such a person of integrity, a person of character, and I think we need more of you in the world. I aspire to that as well.

44:14 I fall short every day, but that one percent incremental improvement. I'm a bit of a pleaser. To avoid conflict, so I've had to learn how to speak truth to power, but do it in a way that works for me. Sounds like you're very direct, which I respect. My approach is. Probably more political or more nuanced, but regardless, I think you create more value in an organization when leaders surround themselves with people like you that are able to put together the facts and data, put together the story, but do it in a way that's respectful, right be heard.

45:06 And then I love what you did next, which is to bring solutions to what you see. Yeah, I always, I always, I identify and do the assessment. I identify the risk, I identify the problems, I identify the conflicts, I identify the communication breakdowns. I mean, you have whole departments don't talk to other departments, yet they are feeding each other information. Well, that's that goes really well as a disaster. And so these kinds of things they need to everybody's quiet, like I said, because they don't want to lose their job or make somebody angry.

45:46 Well call Angela a shark consulting, because that is my job to tell you so that you can make the right proper decisions, especially if you're in leadership, especially if you're the mayor, especially if you're the city council, especially if you're the corporate CEO. Like I said, I learned from the best because I started at large corporations and. I saw do you have a favorite story where the outcome of being the truth teller actually produced the business results that the organization was really needing. I'm just curious if there's a story that you like to tell about audit truth telling story outcome.

46:38 M I'll be honest, they all ended up coming up with changes, but some of them didn't end up being There were there were casualties, I'll put it that way. There were casualties because of the findings and because of the situations that I presented. I did present solutions. I remember doing an implementation for a group for an organization. They wanted to have a new software system put in, and so I put in that software system. I found some abnormalities there, and I said to myself, Okay, is this because they don't understand the process. They haven't probably been properly trained. And they said the other. And it was one of the situation where there was government funds involved, and you know the government was trying to say, well, you know, they're just mismanaging the money. Well I knew that wasn't the issue. So I had the federal government mad at me, and I had you know, the board of directors angry because I had to tell them what the staff had been telling me about what was going on, and so they wanted that information. I said, you're not getting it.

48:07 It's like you better give me that. I said, excuse me. First off, I didn't ask to come here. You asked me would I come and work on a project. I didn't knock on your door. I didn't call you up. You called me, So respect me for that. Secondly, I promised those people that I would never portray their honesty and I'm not going to betray them, So there's absolutely nothing you can say to me except thank you for bringing this to our attention so we can do something about it. So then I went and talked to the federal government and I said, first off, you came in supposedly training how to manage these grants and how to handle this funding and how to do this reporting. Well, I'm here to tell you what you told them wasn't right. So if anybody is responsible here, it's you. Now, if you want to challenge me, we can take it to whatever level you want to go, or you can work with me so we can fix this and everybody walks away happy. So tell me what you want to do because I can fight in either battle.

49:19 Oh well, let's we'll get this right. Okay, great, And we were able to do everything we're ever to get everything set up. We were able to get the funding straightened out, and it was beautiful. I mean, it's I mean. I had other situations where you know, the auditors, Big ten auditing firm did not do their job properly, and they they allowed a company to continue to report working process when they had already put it into business and it should have been now being depreciated and expenses and all this and went over eight years and I found it and I called them on the phone. You are the audities or record You knew exactly what was going on.

50:06 Now tell me, I'm going to tell you what you're going to do. You're going to write a statement that there was an air. We're going to slowly appreciate this out at this rate because you're not going to slam them all at once. But don't make me go and tell the public about this. Okay, warrior, warrior, truth teller. Power to you. Yeah, And I think in this. Era of generative AI Angela, I think we need more of you, and we need people that have the ability to do forensic analysis and really an important applied critical thinking is a skill that I've been developing since getting certified by Red Team Thinking. Being able to ask five whys, kind of like the Toyota to get to the root of an issue pre mortem, some of the Devil's Advocate techniques.

51:09 You really get to the truth and if we can find the truth, truth. Is often relative, but I do believe that there is subjective truth. Maybe not like gravity, which is in violate right you can ignore gravity a few times, but if you keep jumping from higher and higher heights, you're definitely going to hurt yourself. Yes, but so much of what we do is personal, it's relational, it's subjective. There are laws, but we all know that there's the black and white of the law, the letter of the law, and of the law. Right, helping next generation leaders really understand be an important truth teller and truth seeker and truth the community standing on truth in this age of fake news.

52:06 And AI slop. Yeah, Lacker, I think it's going to be a key success factor. Yeah, it's absolutely vital, absolutely vital. Well, David, thank you for coming. On the show. We really had one today. Yeah, and I want to thank you about let's do it again. I'll have you back on generating. Thanks, great conversation. Thank you so much for the opportunity to serve your audience. All right, and thank you for tuning in an A Sharp Outlook. We're here every Monday at eleven am Eastern time and eight am Pacific time. Thank you and whatever you do, stay informed. I want to thank you for joining us on a Sharp Outlook. We have been informed and energized to take the next steps. We have posted links to websites and videos to learn more on today's topic.

53:10 Please join us again next week for another thought provoking conversation right here on k for HD radio and. Talk for TV. Listen to the podcast on all the podcast apps, and until next week, stay informed