Beyond Grades: Developing Cognitive Power to Combat Academic Burnout

0:01 Hello and thank you for tuning in to A Sharp Outlook on K4HD Radio and Talk4TV. I am Angela Sharp, your host. Our armchair discussions with industry experts will give you the steps, tools, and information to be successful in business and to prepare you to be your best self. Hello and thank you for joining us on A Sharp Outlook. We are the podcast that Provides information for you to be able to be successful in your business, in your home, in your personal life, in your entrepreneurship, all the things that you're interested in doing. And today we want to talk about preparing so that you can maybe have that business or own that business. after you get your education.

0:52 So we're going to be talking about combating academic burnout. So beyond the grades, developing cognitive power to combat academic burnout. In an era of distractions, and we know we have those, and social pressures that often derail student potential, how do we rebuild the internal compass of the learner. Well, you're here, and I want you to sit down and take notes and enjoy our guest, Dr. Stephen Jones, the Dean at Villanova University, to explore the synthesis of brain fitness, cognitive confidence, and intrinsic motivation. We're going to discuss how AI and neuro-informed training to move students past the fear of failure and toward a renewed desire to learn, enjoy learning, and excited about learning.

2:00 That's what we're wanting to get to. Building cognitive power isn't just about grades. It's about reclaiming the purpose of education. Whether you're a student aiming for the Dean's List or an educator looking to boost retention rates, this conversation offers a new blueprint for academic excellence. I'd like to ask Dr. Jones to join me right now and so we can have this discussion about how to help our students to be more successful in their environment and be able to Get the things that they need and the things that they want to have so they can be more successful in their particular studies in their way that they're studying so they can have those tools.

2:57 They can believe that their intelligence is malleable and that they can have the cognitive tools to handle challenges. They can become resistant to the negative influences such as the fear of failure or the imposter syndrome, often exacerbated by social media that undermines their academic purpose. And so we're going to ask Dr. Jones to join us. And we're going to begin our conversation. One of the things I do want to say I've had an opportunity to look at some of the tools that are available to help to retrain the brain and give you that cognitive confidence that you can have. So good morning, Dr.

3:51 Jones. Great to see you. Good morning. Glad to be here. Yes. Now talking about just things that we can do to help our students to be more successful in college. They're spending time there. They're trying to learn. They're being challenged. And just how do they get through it without having burnout and fear and feeling like they can't make it and some of them dropping out and just different things. What do you think? Many students today are battling negative feedback loops from social media.

4:31 The belief that they aren't smart enough. or the system is stacked against them or, you know, how does cognitive training break those loops, those thoughts, those things going on? Well, this is a great time of the year to have that discussion because a lot of students in the midst of, you know, first of all, there are those who are going to college for the first time in their entire family. They're the first person in their entire family to go to college. And there's some, you know, imposter syndrome situations that come up because it seems like they represent the whole world and that heavy weight is on their shoulder. But then you also have students returning who may have struggled the first year and kind of they're having anxiety about whether they'll be able to do better the second year. So I think the cognitive development has to do with where they're at and what resources they're accessing so that they can do better as they move forward. A lot of times I've seen students who are especially first-generation students who are the top of their academic class at their high school not go and get help when they go to college because they think it's a sign of weakness as a sign of wisdom and strength that they're going to get that help. So I think, like I said, this is the ideal time to have this discussion to reaffirm to the students that they can

6:05 do well. There's a lot of resources, a lot of strategies, a lot of ways of thinking that will enable them to be successful if they take on that and not allow the negative things to pull them away from this whole idea that they desire to go to college or some other training program. It's something that's in their heart. That's something that maybe preparation wasn't as much as they thought it was. Once they get into some of these classes, they find out, you know, I'm dealing with engineering students, so they find out that their calculus wasn't the same calculus that they're getting in college. And so anxiety and stress and so forth can.

6:49 Build up over that. Yeah. Well, I mean, I was just thinking about because I was the first one in my family that went to higher education. And you do feel that pressure that I have to succeed. I have to make it. Everybody that never went is counting on me to be successful to do that. And it is a lot of pressure to have to have that on your mind as well as trying to make those grades. And then. I was working and going to school So I had had, you know, interaction and maybe not on the camp, you know, on campus, but going to class and then leaving and going home. But when you're there and you have so much peer pressure, that's got to be difficult. You know, how does building physical brain fitness translate into psychological confidence required to handle difficult subjects? Because they are going to be challenging. college, it's not high school any longer. And they may have breezed through those classes, but it's a whole different thing once you get in those other classes.

8:11 Like, whoa, I actually have a team now. Yeah, I think. That is something that develops as you are going through and taking each individual class. And I'll make a point here. Show up for class. I've seen students, the first couple of classes, get so overwhelmed that they stop going to class. And that is the worst thing that you can do in terms of your development through the class. Once you start missing information, then you fall further and further behind. But as a strategy, because I'm always thinking about that, if you want to continue to develop yourself, two things. First, sit in front of the class. Second, make sure that you're meeting with your faculty member. That faculty member is there to help you to be successful. I didn't know about office hours when I went to college. The instructor may have said it, but I didn't know what it was. And I just didn't know what it was and what I should do or how I should use it. So I'm going to just share that office hours is that faculty have a set amount of time that's available throughout the week. for students to come in and get help. And so that's what we want to do. We want to position you as whoever is listening, whether you're an 18, 24-year-old going to college, or whether you're an adult learner beyond 24

9:41 and you're going back to college, this is something that you need to do is meet with your faculty member. And that's from class to class. They all have hours that you can sit down with them. You're feeling behind. It will help you to get over some of the anxiety and recognize that each class is part of your growth. It's not to hinder you. It's to propel you forward and to give you more knowledge so that when you go out in your profession, you can do well. Right, right. Absolutely. Do you find that many aren't taking advantage of it because they're slightly embarrassed or some kind of emotional thing like that's happening inside instead of saying, you know what?

10:24 My education is important. I don't care what anybody else thinks. I need to take care of me. So I'm going to go take care of me and get my grades so I can be successful. And you can giggle, you can laugh. That's your personal issue. I mean, you know, do we have to build them up a little to be able to just go through that challenge? Because you always got somebody over in the corner. They got to go. It's like, hey, let me tell you what to tell them. Tell them, I'm going to graduate. What about you? You got time to do all that?

11:08 We'll see who has their cap and gown on and just walk away. Absolutely. Don't let those negative Words hinder you from getting what you need. And I think, again, some of it comes from they never needed tutoring when they were in high school. So why should I need it now that I'm here in college? And here's the reality. The students are getting A's and B's. They're going for tutoring. So that's how they keep their grades up. They go for that additional help to keep their grades in that B, A range. And you want to be the same person taking advantage of what will help you to be successful and not allow other people's opinions of you hinder you from getting that help.

12:00 And, yeah. Yeah. And, you know, you just kind of think about it. One of the things I never thought about grades. I always thought about the information that I'm learning right now is going to open a door of opportunity for me to go get paid. And that's how I kept my mind straight. You know, it wasn't about the grades, even though my grades were very good. And like you said, high school from elementary to high school, I was one of those kids. I was always in trouble because I, I learned really fast. And then I was bored while others were trying to learn. And I'd say little things I shouldn't have seen.

12:51 That's like, well, I'm bored. So they started giving me extra study to do, you know, classes and extra courses and things. And so. It accelerated my learning capability. So by the time I was ready for college, I was like, yeah, I'm ready to take this on. And I'm going to ask, you know what? I already know this stuff because I studied it. So can you give me something else? Because I know there's more to it than this. And they always were very generous with their time and extra information that really helped. helped me to excel beyond where I normally would have because I took extra work and extra things and kept my brain, you know, and then I'd even be trying to use it at work and stuff like that.

13:39 So, but yeah, it was one of the bad ones. Wow. How can we help students transition from a performance-based mindset, you know, like focusing on the grades? Yeah. To a mastery-based mindset where they're focusing on. The joy of learning, there is a difference there. Just trying to pass and then actually excited about the learning because of what it's going to equip you to do. You know, one of the things that made me think about how I benefited from study groups, that was the place to share, interact, prove that I.

14:27 Had learned what I learned in study groups. So that may be a good strategy in terms of while they're seeing, you know, you're having these conversations about the real world and how I'll apply this and having those students share with you as well. Another thing that colleges also do is they have guest speakers. So just going to sit in on some of them and hearing what the real world is and the application of that knowledge and how they're going to be able to use it, I think is the essential element of making the connection that my excellence, not just A's and B's, but my excellence as a person will pay off. And sometimes you need to hear from different perspectives to gain that, to understand the value of it. And it's hard because all throughout elementary school, middle school, and high school, everyone's telling you, you need A's and but they're not telling you about their personal development and personal growth.

15:27 And I guess you are developing that all along the line, but. Then I explained the value of, you know, how when you develop the expertise yourself, when you go out to work in corporate America or education or wherever you might be, you'll have more, not only head knowledge, but you'll have ability knowledge. Right. Right. And you know what, Dr. James? That's one of the things I run across when I. Have my corporate hat on and I'm in there as an interim director of finance or a CFO or whatever, or I'm there as a software tech. I'm meeting the younger generation and they've gone to school and they got their grades and they got their degree, but somewhere along the line, they didn't really capture what they were being taught because they're coming in. I'm having to get out on the whiteboard and do all sorts of things because they don't know how to apply the information that they've learned.

16:40 You know, they are just studying for the grades instead of studying for what that future, what that knowledge is really going to bring to them and how to apply it. I'm not sure how we get that across to them, but I tell you, and I've worked a long time, and every working situation I have had to go in and absolutely become a. Teacher. To actually walk them through, and I know there's some training, but I'm talking about basic things that they should understand that they were learning. So they're getting grades, they're passing tests, they're memorizing, but they're not consuming information.

17:29 What we've done at Villanova, where I work, we have a professional development course that our students have to take. And in that professional development course, those kinds of the soft skills, the ability to communicate, problem solve, decision make, and to take knowledge and use it and apply it are the kinds of things that we have in that class. And also students get credit for going to hear speakers come in, to hear alumni, to hear others come in. So it's a great way for them to take advantage of. the other level of growth that you can have even before you hit industry. So I would recommend to any students that are listening, if your college has a professional development course, it may be one or two credits. Ours is one or two credits, pass or fail. But I just see how much they're able to grow. And we assign every student in the course a mentor that's graduated from the university. So it's a great way to kind of look at and learn things from a different perspective.

18:36 Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. We're running it. I mean, it costs so much. You want to come away with something that you can actually be able to get a return on your investment through your compensation in the work that you're doing and going in there with the excellence that you were given the opportunity to get at the university. We want you to succeed. You know, people like me, we're getting ready to leave the workforce and we need. Here's the baton, please. I need to retire. Getting them all prepared so they're ready and able to do that. One of the things that, you know, some of the social media and different things like that, I know a lot of people, I hear it from my granddaughter, a lot of students are caught up into social media and some of the impact that it has, you know, on their lives and listening to some of the, you know, the negative conversations and things. And I've seen where there are tools out there using AI tools to help empower them so that when they're feeling like, oh, I'm not going to pass this. Oh, I'm not as smart as everybody else. Oh, there's tools out there that will give you the other side of the conversation you're having in your head so that.

20:05 You're not. Absorbing all that negative thought and all that you know contradictory thinking about where you're going but it's going to empower you to say well look at the other things give me three things that you've done and been successful with and looking at that and it's like well yeah i was able to do that yeah sure i'm able to pass this course sure i'm able to graduate sure i'm able to but just you know if you're going to be on the system use it for something that's actually benefiting your life instead of all of the negativity.

20:45 I know that at college you have counselors there to go to and talk to. Do you find that some of them are shying away from talking to a counselor to help them? Well, that's an interesting question because when COVID happened, I mean, the counselors were overwhelmed with the number of students that were coming in with all kinds of different issues related to that and the whole experience. But it hasn't stopped. I mean, the students have continued to take advantage of the counselors that we have on campus for all kinds of issues, including we have a learning support center where they can actually go and learn a lot of information that will help them academically. So it's really important to, again, for students to take advantage of that.

21:46 That's a resource. And when you talk about websites that they can find, the Learning Center can give you all kinds of websites, the library. Contrary to popular belief, a library is still a good place for resources. So in terms of websites, apps, and so forth, go to the library, ask them questions. We do have a health and wellness app that our university uses. The universities have the same thing. It's a health and wellness app. And you can go in there. It'll talk to you. It'll give you some tips and strategies. All the universities have different versions of the same thing, but you have to find out what it is at your university. But I think it's a great tool. You can measure how you're growing as well. And then it'll tell you, go get help. will tell you, I can give you all I can give you. You need to go here to get help. So I think that that's an important development with it.

22:47 Right. And, you know, even thinking about AI, I know I use AI. I'm not against AI. And it has its place and its purpose. When, you know, and I'm just wondering if students are utilizing this tool to to get quick answers instead of spending the time to think it through so they build their own analytical skills so they can answer the problems themselves. And I don't want to say it's cheating. You might be getting like a leg up, but are you really accomplishing what you need to accomplish when you get into the workforce?

23:36 They're not going to be wanting AI answers. They're going to want you to do some critical thinking, analyze the situation, and come up with multiple options for a decision-making to be made. And if you've now become dependent on pushing this chat GPT or one of these other buttons to get your answers where you really don't even know where the information came from, whether it's right or wrong, or how you are able to get that same answer because you're taking a quick route that is going to affect you in the future. You're not going to be able to do that when you get on the job. You're going to have people standing there. They're going to want you to not only present your solutions, they're going to want you to present your method of getting this information.

24:31 And uh-oh, whoops. You're going to be found out. So I'm advising you, AI has its purpose. And like I said, it can give you maybe some websites and some alternatives to where you want to begin looking. But it is not the tool that's supposed to work through multiple scenarios and come up with the correct scenarios so that you can present it to your leadership on your job. They're going to find out. And guess what? You're going to have more problems than. What you ever thought when you now are asked to leave and your reference is going to be negative. So don't go there. Please don't go there. I'm, I'm warning you.

25:22 I've been working a long time. I know. You know, they're going to, like I said, you just can't give them an answer. They want to see, you know, what steps you went through, why you're this particular solution. And all of that. And so, yeah. Um, just let me to add to that. And I just had this conversation with my daughter. She's a professor at Chicago state university. And, um, Yeah, her doctorate is in computer science, so she knows all about this. I go to her. She's an expert. Anyway, so she told me she had a student that basically had used ChatGPT to get an answer and that she could clearly see because this student has never used certain words before. So she could clearly see that ChatGPT had done the work. And so she was explained to her how.

26:18 You're going to be programming, you're going to be learning programming during this class. You need to have the ability to actually use that programming. And you may be interviewed for a job where you actually have to work in one of these programs and demonstrate to them in the interview that you can use it, you can process it, you can think about it, you can apply it. And so she had to help the student understand it's not just about whether you're doing what's right according to the class. is what your ability will be in the future. So she called a student into her office and they had a conversation. Hopefully she's going in the right direction because all of them are definitely using this and it must be used in the right way. And we actually have software at our university that they can tell whether it's from a person or it's chat GPT. So that's something that also that you have to be aware of that, These universities now have software that's checking out what chat chief is putting out as well.

27:21 Right. Yeah. And like I said, if you're going to allow that tool to do all of your answering, you're not actually learning and absorbing. And you're going to be put to the test when you walk in on that job because they have tools that can tell whether or not it was through some AI system. And then they're going to call you on the carpet and say, I need you to do this. And if you've never learned the processes, if you've never learned how that information is applied, you're going to be not only embarrassed, you're going to be in a serious situation. So it's not something that you think you can skate through. just give it a couple questions because in most cases you don't even know the right questions to ask to get the right answer because to be able to apply information to actually get AI to work efficiently and effectively you've got to know the questions so that means you have to know the process so that means you have to know the information so you need to stay.

28:32 Focused She also said to them when they first started the class, getting them to respond was like pulling teeth. And again, she explained to them, you're going to get in the industry and you have to talk. You have to give presentations. You have to be able to give questions and answer questions. This is practice. For real life. So you let them get away with it for one class. And then after that, she was like, your grade is going to be determined based on some of this interaction. So why wait? And, you know, why don't you just step out as a student and be that person that stands out in the class and who is ready to learn and jumps in there with the conversation with the professor?

29:20 Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And not only that, it's kind of like you're really trying to fake it. Through the education system and you don't understand that it's your foundation. It is something you're going to go back and rely on. for the rest of your working career. So you do want to know how it really works and not take the quick and easy way because you'll find out it's quick and easy to get you unemployed. So we don't want to want that happening, not when you invest so much.

30:02 But one of the things is, you know, is there something that, you know, and I'm not, you know, speaking negatively of the college culture or things like that, but I know that a lot of them are coming from, like you said, they get good grades in their high school and they've not had any problems. So most of the time they haven't really been paying attention too much. is there's some kind of classes or something like that that can be done to kind of maybe change the campus culture so that you know they're coming in unprepared and you're not setting them up to fail, but they don't know how to manage themselves and maneuver in that environment.

30:55 that's demanding so much. Is there some kind of, I don't know, pre-classes or something that can be done to help her prepare them instead of like, you know, walking in a room. And they're just blown. So two things. One, I have programs myself, they're high school programs for students who are interested in engineering and science. So one of my programs called Vested, they come on seven Saturdays and learn engineering and science. This is mostly in the Philadelphia region. But they come from like 8.30 to 2.30 and they learn engineering.

31:39 They work with some of our volunteers. And they also have a summer program for a week where you actually live on campus. So I would say that's one way to get some preparation for college life because we have We have speakers, and we have admissions come, and we have the students interacting with the students on how they succeed in class. So getting in a program like that where you can continually have some interaction with college students or some kind of program. Now, they have them in the business college. They have them in nursing. All these different colleges have these, they call pre-college programs to kind of get students ready for college. Now, what you're also talking about It's called a summer bridge program.

32:23 And a summer bridge program is five or six weeks where you actually live on campus before you start school and college in the fall. So it is a great way to adjust to college life, know about the food, know about how instruction is at a college level before you actually get in a bunch of college level courses. And that will help you to make the adjustment you'll have 30 or 40 other friends that you know when you come to college, as opposed to just coming fresh, not knowing. You'll hang out with these students as you're going to classes, and you'll have fun events in these five or six-week summer programs. So ask the college that you're applying to whether they have a summer bridge program.

33:10 They have them in various forms. Some are five weeks, some are less than five weeks, but some are a week or two before classes start. This depends on the university. But I have found that the students that participate in summer programs graduate at a higher rate than the average student. So it's definitely worth it. So this is something that's university to university is not a standard to actively foster intellectual courage so that they are really coming in there. you know, ready, prepared, understanding this is about expanding your intelligence and your capabilities. And yes, there are some parties, but it's not about just coming for some party. It's about, you know, actually, you know, preparing yourself for the rest of your life or the rest of your working career, preparing you for, you know, that, and you're gonna need to be using your intellectual capabilities, um, And you need to build those up during that time that you're in your campus.

34:20 Yeah. It also varies. Something else I thought about was this varies from high school to high school, but they also have, the high schools have relationships with community colleges where you can actually get an associate degree while you're. In high school. You take, um, I think the third or fourth year, you actually start going to college classes as opposed to going to your own classes. So for the parents that are listening and students, ask that question whether your high school offers college, community college courses while you're there. And that's a great way to get introduced to it before you're actually living on a college campus.

35:03 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And just, you know, like you said, preparing. preparing yourself intellectually, preparing yourself emotionally to understand the real purpose that you're at the university, because they're going to be a lot of activities going on besides all of the classes and still being focused and strong enough to say, just say no. And, you know, be in there doing the study or, you know, be in the study groups or whatever is necessary and, So that you, you know, you are exceeding, you are excelling in what's going on.

35:44 But some of them. That they, like I said, they, they come there, they used to do really well. They didn't have to study very hard and they were expecting that college was going to be the same way. And bam, they get in the head with a shot and they begin to start short circuiting, you know, and, um, And then here comes the negative thoughts. Here come the negative influences. You know, because if some are doing bad, they're going to have a whole group of going bad. So they can feel like they're strong. Doing bad.

36:24 So, you know, how do we combat that, them short-circuiting because of all of these negative influences or things that, you know, the pressures that are out there, how can we get them so that they are not allowing themselves to, you know, be pulled off of the path of success? There's a statement, birds of a feather flock together. So they did a study and they put people with a bunch of negative thoughts in a room and a bunch of positive people in the room. And all the positive people found each other and all the negative people found each other. So you have to find the positive people and supportive people. When you sit down with a professor, you're going to feel, oh, this person feels warm. This person is approachable. And then you're going to find other professors that are not that approachable. But as you see those individuals, those are the kind of people that you need to interact with. Same thing in your class. There are going to be students who are approachable, students who are not approachable. And you want to be that person that reaches out to them. Now, I'm not going to say they're always going to reach out to you, but you can take the initiative to reach out to them and put yourself in positive environments. You have an advisor on your campus, just like you had a counselor at your high school. That's the person that's there for you.

37:53 And they understand everything that's happening in your department. They know all the other faculty. They know the department chair. And they can make you feel really positive about that experience. One thing that we didn't bring up here is just physical fitness. So I'm going to say that. You taking care of yourself physically is an important part of your mental health, your physical health, your strength and your abilities, your resting health. some students go off to college and they no longer work out anymore. They just, you know, they eat and they go to class. But I need you to continue in the physical fitness aspect. And if you haven't done it in high school, here's an opportunity because the gym will be no cost. You go to the gym, you can use anything that you want there.

38:41 They have classes on these campuses, you know, aerobics classes and other spin classes. So, Think about at least three days a week. Some kind of fitness thing that you're engaged with, whether it's walking, you're running. I have these conversations with students all the time that how tired they feel and they're not getting enough sleep. Sleep is essential for mental health overall. So you have to balance that out. And one of the ways that you do that is you study ahead of time. You don't study the night before a test. You study four or five days before the test so that you can then be able to do well without stress.

39:29 That spins into you need a time management system. You need a time management system that will keep you on task with all your classes and help you to really manage what you're doing. Again, I have to talk about my experience. When I went to college, I thought that I could keep my schedule in my head. I didn't leave a daily planner. Back then, they didn't have electronic meetings, but I didn't need that. And I found that my first semester, I almost failed out of college because I wasn't. Managing my time. I didn't realize that I needed to study five days before an exam or a quiz. And so I met with a counselor my second semester, and then I excelled from there.

40:10 But managing your time is critical. So whether it's with your electronic device that you're managing it, or an actual handheld. Old paper. Book that you use, those are all important tools for you to be successful and take advantage of. Oh, absolutely. You know, one of the things is, as you're in college, you're preparing, you've got to understand what you're preparing to do to become the CEO of your walk through the working environment. So that CEO needs to be planning what he's doing every day. He also needs to be focusing on what is important and being able to say, like I said, just say no. This has nothing to do with where I'm going and what I'm trying to do.

41:05 I need to focus on my classes. And like you said, don't wait till the last hour because you study, you're not going to remember it because the stress itself is going to keep you from remembering it. So you should be, like I said, If you're there learning, because you want to learn, not just pass tests, you're going to maintain that information because you're going to understand it. You're going to be, you know, thinking about it. You're going to be saying, Oh, let me, let me go try this out with you. It was a, you know, a system out there, throw some stuff out there and try it out and see that you are thinking the way you're supposed to be thinking. And like I said, managing your emotions, and managing your study time. And you're the CEO. So I hate to say it. If you're wanting success, remember you're the CEO. If you fail, we got to blame the CEO, which is you. You didn't plan.

42:07 You didn't rest. You didn't manage. You didn't study. And you allowed your emotions to take the top priority in your planning system instead of being like last or not at all of what it is that you're trying to accomplish and what you're trying to do. You have to really be focused about what you're doing and things like that. And I know there's going to be time that, you know, you get stressed and you, you know, but being able to handle that stress, that stress in your mind and dealing with it, turning that those negative things is causing so much stress into something more positive so that you can have that energy.

42:57 You can have that, you know. Thought, uh, capability to be able to, um, keep on. Stepping, keep on going, keep on learning, keep on applying. And, you know, um, not certain, you know, uh, going in a situation where you just totally stop what you're doing, start having thoughts. I think I'm just going to quit. I'm not good enough. I can't do it. You should never say that to yourself because you woke. Up and you were breathing. That's right. Woke up, you were breathing. And that means you are still capable and blessed and able to accomplish the task for that day. So, Those are things you should never tell yourself.

43:46 No. Yes, you can do it. Yes, you're going to do it. Yes, you better do it. Grandma's saying that right now. You don't have an option. I'm telling you. You don't have an option. So, you know, my background is, you know, in, like I said, being in finance and different things like that and And being able to talk about, you know, keeping your brain straight, keeping your thoughts straight, being able to combat negative thoughts and things, different things like that. You know, having those discussions, whether they're going to a counselor or whomever, if you're feeling like you can't get up and study, you don't want to go to class, find someone, do something.

44:40 to change your mindset so you can always keep that positive focus. And it's going to be up and down, don't you think, Dr. Jones? Oh, yes. Oh, yes. That's part of growth, too, through trials and tribulations and challenges. You can grow from that because you'll learn what you do need to do and what you don't need to do. In fact, again, going back to engineering students, part of being an engineer is failing. You'll keep trying and trying and trying until you get the solution. So sometimes you're failing to win at the end, like to get through it.

45:20 But I will say one thing here. If you're in class, every university has a drop period. So the drop period is the last time that you can drop a class and not have the grade count against you. Um, so you need to know what that drop period is for your particular school. So that if you're in a class that you just don't think you're getting it, you had the midterm, you have a D the instructor telling you it's not going to go well. Then you might want to consider dropping the class, but you need to know the deadline of that class. I had a class like that.

46:02 The reason why I can tell you that because I had a class like that, but I didn't know that I could drop the class. So, uh, I stayed in a class and I didn't pass the class. Not for lack of effort, I just didn't understand the class. And so I tell every student, don't allow yourself to get trapped when you could actually drop a class and take it again next semester, maybe even with a different instructor. Sometimes one instructor is better than the other instructor. And I'd rather you be a wise student and take advantage of that than to struggle. Also, To add to that, if you, let's say you're taking Calc 1 or Algebra 1, whatever it is in college, and you're going to take Algebra 2 and you got a D minus or a D plus or a D in the first part of it, that's a sign that you need help with that class if you're taking Algebra 2, Calculus 2. You should get a tutor right away for the next semester. Don't wait to get that help. second semester because you've already indicated that you're not as strong in that subject it's not going to get better because now you're in part two part one is the foundation for part.

47:19 Two right right and i like what you said about you know in engineering the the whole profession itself is dealing with finding the right answers and so you're going to run into the wrong answers at times and That's in tech, that's in finance, and you do have to have the capability of coming up with multiple ways of trying to find the right solution. And I want to say clearly, do not think that wrong is a failure. it is a tool to say, okay, let me see where it went wrong and maybe make a minor change here because that's how you do your analytical work when you get in your job. You're not going to be successful each time you do it. You're not going to come up with the right solution. There are going to be other things that are going to be coming in.

48:20 And if you get destroyed emotionally because Somebody said, no, this is wrong. Then you have some inner things that you need to work on because you're never going to be perfect each time. You have to understand you have the intellect. You have the skills. You have the knowledge. You just may be approaching it a different way because you didn't. Clearly understand what happened. The leader wanted because they're thinking a different way than what you're thinking. So go ask them. So give me a little idea. What specifically are you wanting to see? And that helps them. So no's are not failures. No's are stepping stones to get into the right answer.

49:08 That's what they are. So be prepared to do that. You think so? Yeah. And, corporate America will tell you it's the same thing. No is just part of developing. I know if you're in pharmaceutical, for sure, you're developing medicines. Some of these medicines take five and eight years to develop them and get them to market. So they're succeeding and failing all along the pipeline, but that's not deterring them from moving toward their ultimate goal of getting this medicine to market and so the same applies here is you know just using those stepping stones of growth um sitting down and sometimes saying to yourself or writing yourself well here's some ways i think i've grown just seeing it visually some kind sometimes can get.

49:57 You motivated. Yes Well, could you tell the audience some, because I know after this conversation, there's going to be people wanting. To contact you, Dr. Jones. So please share your information as to how. They can get in touch with you. Sure. You can go to my website, which is drjonesbooks.com. That's D-R-J-O-N-E-S-B-O-O-K-S.com. You can email me at S-T-E-P-H-E-N. J-O-N-E-S-S at rcn.com. Or you can reach out to me by phone at 610-842-3843. Great.

50:44 Because I know they're going to be contacting you to get more clarity on how to be successful in their classes and really, truly take a positive look at how their education is working and going for them. I do appreciate your time today, Dr. Jones, and all that you give us good wisdom and give the students and the parents wisdom on how their student can succeed in a very challenging environment like college. And not only is it going to be challenging there, it's going to be challenging and competitive when you get into the workforce. So it's really doing a lot of preparation.

51:29 So last words. So I will say to you, persist, resist the feelings that you can't do it. You can do all things. And if you have the faith and belief and you're consistent in that belief, you'll accomplish your goal. And you will graduate and we'll be throwing up the confetti of all that you've done and all that you've accomplished. But it will be behind you, but you'll be moving forward into a greater opportunity. Yes, thank you. And thank you for joining us at A Sharp Outlook. We're here every Monday from 11 a.m. Eastern Time, 8 a.m.

52:11 Pacific Time. We're here to provide you with information to be able to help you to become successful in what you're doing. So please tune in to us. As I said, I gave you the times. And also, A Sharp Outlook is there. And if you want to not miss one of our very valuable shows, please consider subscribing. Look forward to seeing you again next week. Thank you. I want to thank you for joining us on A Sharp Outlook. We have been informed and energized to take the next steps. We have posted links to websites and videos to learn more on today's topic. Please join us again next week for another thought-provoking conversation right here on K4HD Radio and Talk4TV. Listen to the podcast on all the podcast apps. And until next week, stay informed.